Small Door’s Serge Clivio & Nicole McLeod

Serge Clivio & Nicole McLeodSmall Door's Serge Clivio & Nicole McLeod

Interviews should prioritize cultural fit to hire those who enhance the company’s values. Our guests, Nicole McLeod and Serge Clivio from Small Door Veterinary, experts in talent acquisition, will discuss recruitment insights. Topics include Small Door’s mission, Nicole’s career path in recruitment, her choice to join Small Door, Serge’s interview approach, and more. Tune in to explore their distinctive interview methods, uncover success strategies, and learn about their future career plans.

Episode Transcript

Rob Stevenson 0:05
Welcome to Talk Talent to me, a podcast featuring the most elite talent leaders on the front lines of modern recruitment.

Speaker 2 0:12
We actually want to understand the themes of someone’s life. We want to understand how they make decisions where they’re willing to take risks and what it looks like when they fail.

Rob Stevenson 0:22
No holds-barred completely off-the-cuff interviews with directors of recruitment VPs of global talent, CHR rows, and everyone in between.

Speaker 1 0:31
Once I went through the classes and the training and got the certifications through diversity and inclusion, I still felt like something was missing.

Serge Clivio 0:39
Talent Acquisition. It’s a fantastic career, you are trusted by the organization. You get to work with the C suite and the security at the front desk and everybody in between and everybody knows you.

Rob Stevenson 0:52
I’m your host, Rob Stevenson, and you’re about to hear the best in the biz. talk down to me. Hello, again, all of you. Wonderful, darling recruiters out there in podcast land. It’s me, Rob Stevenson, your favorite recruiting podcaster here with another classic installment of the pod. And it’s a very special edition because I have not just one guest for you. But two guests, two guests at the same time, and I’m so pleased to have them here. One of whom is a returning champion who discerning listeners of the show will remember very well from a previous episode he did with us when he’s not busy recruiting. He is busy being Hannah Montana performing on stage he has the most beautiful singing voice and you can catch him all over the Lower East Side. I’m told he’s a senior recruiter at Small Door Search Clivia Welcome back to the podcast. Hi,

Serge Clivio 1:42
Rob. That was a grind. Can you record that? Well, it will be recorded, I might use that before for into my next promo. I’m firing my team. If my team is listening, they’re fired. And you’re hired.

Rob Stevenson 1:52
Y eah. And I’m sure that they can’t compete with my prices, either. When my prices are free 99

Unknown Speaker 1:57
Oh, my gosh. Oh, you’re definitely hired.

Rob Stevenson 1:59
I’ll introduce you all day surge. I won’t charge you a dime until you start booking. You know, if you book like The Apollo or something, then we’ll have to renegotiate. But

Speaker 3 2:07
that’s only fair. No, I’m so happy to be back. It’s crazily been almost, I think a little over two years since I’ve been on the pod. But I just adore the pod and adore you. And I’m so happy that it’s still going and doing so well. And I’m thrilled to be here and in a new capacity.

Rob Stevenson 2:22
Yeah, thanks for thanks for saying that. And so pleased to have you back. We’re going to catch up with you and what you’ve been up to in just a moment. But I don’t want to leave our second guest in the wings too much longer. She is the head of talent acquisition over there at a small door. I think searches boss. I’m not sure Nicole McLeod. Welcome to you, Nicole.

Nicole Mcleod 2:39
Nice. So great to be here. This is so fun. And I don’t have as great of an intro as Serge. But I would like to add I’m a stellar mom and mom.

Rob Stevenson 2:53
She is a mother recruiter, head of talent acquisition aware of fantastic chunky sweaters. That’s a self-serving condiment because we match at the moment.

Serge Clivio 3:02
Oh my gosh, I didn’t get that memo. I have the exact same sweater as both of you too. Damn.

Rob Stevenson 3:07
Do you want to go change quickly? And you know we can get a screenshot of all three of us and sweaters might be worthwhile.

Serge Clivio 3:14
Actually. Maybe at the end? Yeah, maybe.

Rob Stevenson 3:16
Nicole a point of order. Are you in fact searches boss?

Nicole Mcleod 3:19
I am. Yes. I hired surge in proud to be his boss. Actually. I just hired surge in December.

Rob Stevenson 3:27
I’ll mute his track. How’s he doing?

Nicole Mcleod 3:29
Yeah, maybe we’ll save that for part two of this episode.

Rob Stevenson 3:33
Oh, yeah, we should we should talk. We should talk later.

Nicole Mcleod 3:35
No, but in all seriousness, I am honestly very lucky to work with Serge who’s a master at his craft of recruiting and pretty exceptional too. We get tons of great feedback about him and his experience, both from internally and externally.

Rob Stevenson 3:52
I am not surprised to hear that before we get too deep in the weeds here. I think maybe it would be useful to set some context around the company you both work at so Nicola, maybe could you share some background on small door and what the company is out there trying to accomplish?

Nicole Mcleod 4:06
Yes, of course, it’s a smaller veterinary is a membership based veterinary practice. We started with the intention and the mission to be the most trusted partner in veterinary medicine. In doing this, we’re a general practice. We have 10 locations currently. And those are in New York City, Boston, and DC. And we’re going to continue growth and expansion across all of our markets and introducing new markets. What makes us unique is we are a membership based business. So anyone that does come to us whether they have a dog or a cat, they need to first have a membership with us. And that allows us to truly create an exceptional experience for our members and ensure that we can meet with them same or next day. Make sure that they get quality time with our doctors. So every member receives 30 to 60 minutes with a doctor. They have a plethora of communication outlets, whether it’s through chat, phone, email in person, a number of ways to connect with our trusted medical team, as well as providing a really amazing experience for our employees. So making sure that their days are not swamped with appointments, but they’re manageable, making sure that we have the right dynamic staffs to support them. So all in all, the membership has really we’ve seen tons of success over the past five years with a membership, and look to continue our growth and expansion.

Rob Stevenson 5:30
So the small door is the small door that your beloved animal friend runs through. Yes. Ah, that’s cute. Clever, right. Very, very clever. I like that a lot. I’m sure I’ve had manager direct report on the show before but I’ve never asked about the hiring process because you said that you hired surge. So Nicole, I would love to know the background. What was hiring surge like and at what point did it become clear that he was the one for the job?

Serge Clivio 5:53
What a fun story, Nicole?

Nicole Mcleod 5:55
Yes, I would also like to say Serge is a great partner to I never like to look at us as I’m his manager, I think we’re he’s done so much to elevate our talent, acquisition team and structure. But hiring surge, that search was incredibly difficult for us search can probably speak to this, but we have extreme the bar set extremely high on our standards of who we bring on to the team. And we were having a lot of trouble staying afloat. But we were also having a lot of trouble finding the right profile, someone who understood the speed that we moved in, but also understood the complexities of the roles that we were recruiting for the growth that we had in store. And to be honest, as soon as I met Serge, he felt like the right one. And we kind of got to this place where he was asking so many questions, he was so curious about everything from soup to nuts, to the point where I actually responded to him with a 10 minute audio voice message.

Serge Clivio 6:52
I remember that not to cut you off, Nicole, that audio voice message actually was is when I was like, I like her a lot. I love a good voice memo.

Rob Stevenson 7:01
Have you ever done such a good job interviewing that the hiring manager started a podcast? It’s amazing. The only person who can say that? Wait, so you probably like you probably need Nikolas started typing it like you know what, this will be easier if I just rattle it off. Right?

Nicole Mcleod 7:18
Yeah. And I do think I something that’s really important to me is transparency with anyone that I work with. And honestly and Serge exuded that from the very beginning. And so what easier way to show personality and emotion in your response to all these really important questions that he was focusing on, which was around equity, compensation, growth potential, etc.

Rob Stevenson 7:39
The asking questions, part of the interview is like as a candidate, I think such an important place to distinguish yourself. I always was like, that always made a candidate stand out when I was interviewing if they had really thoughtful questions about the role. So I’d love to know what some of those questions were. Either one of you can jump in. But maybe that’s a good little example, for some folks out there to use when they’re interviewing.

Serge Clivio 8:01
That’s a good question. I remember what I always ask questions. Obviously, there’s, I feel like there’s two fold, like I want to take care of me first. I always say because I do think it’s important as someone who’s interviewing to make sure that you’re an advocate for yourself, and you feel like you have all the answers, you need to make a strong decision at the end of the process. But then I think part two after I like figured that out with Nicole, a lot of my questions centered around the actual company’s hiring philosophies and the partnership with people because I think, as a recruiter, and for anyone who’s actively I know, the job market for recruiters is hot, I think it’s really important to understand that you will not succeed in your role as a recruiter if you do not align or see the growth of the actual like company principles. And I think our job may be more important than anyone else’s in the company is to really be sure that we’re aligned in that sense, because if we’re talking to people on the phone all day and selling something, but we don’t really believe in the actual profile, that we’re searching for the process that we’re kind of running, then it’s really, really hard, I think, to succeed at your job. So it was really important for me because I had come from a place that I was at, for like three years and really comfortable at so going somewhere else was really scary. And I wanted to make sure that there was at least alignment in the place that we were going with recruiting because a lot of early stage companies that those things still need to be kind of sorted out and uncovered. And I think what I wanted to hear from Nicole, which obviously I did, which is why I joined was that she was bought in and that our co founders and that our executive team were bought into where the actual function of talent could grow into and the values and the process that they could hold.

Rob Stevenson 9:53
I’m glad you called that out Serge. It’s important to assess the level of investment and respect for the function for include the talent function on the part of the company that will let you know if you’re gonna be able to get stuff done and get buy in from hiring managers and just be respected, and be able to grow in the role and accomplish things, etc, etc. So, Nicole, it’s worth calling out you were the first hire at small door. And not necessarily you weren’t in the talent function, I don’t think at the time. So I imagine you were instrumental in helping develop this attitude toward talent is that fair to say?

Nicole Mcleod 10:25
It was, I definitely didn’t come in with the years of experience and talent, what I did come in with was experience in building a culture and an experience itself. And I’ve worked at a couple of other companies prior to small door where the focus was on the people. And then the people in turn would create a successful and thriving product, successful business, strong revenue, etc. And so that was a critical piece of the puzzle in which why I decided to join small doors, the first employee, we didn’t have any locations, there was a business model. But other than that, there, it was kind of like a hope and a dream at that time. So when I did join, one of the founders are both founders made it very clear to me that the people in this industry were underserved in the veterinary medicine industry, and they were taking it for granted at times, and they were not put on a pedestal the same way our human healthcare doctors are. And so that felt to me as a huge area of opportunity, setting the bar pretty low, and a way that we could, we would stand out as an employer to those who are seeking jobs in this industry.

Rob Stevenson 11:36
Gotcha. Yeah, that makes sense. I do want to know a little bit more about your story, Nicole, like, at what point? Did you kind of move into talent? Did it become clear like this was where you were, your time was best meant?

Nicole Mcleod 11:46
Yes. Pretty unique story. I also think a lot of people say they never graduate and want to become a recruiter. But somehow they find their way into it. Yeah, so my, again, focus a ton on experience, employee experience, specifically. And I think talent directly correlates to how engaged and successful your team is the people that you hire that add to that culture and engagement. And joining small door, it was just the three of us, it was myself and the two co founders. And all three of us were not from the vet med industry at the time, we had worked with really talented advisors, and others who were extremely knowledgeable about the industry, and we were learning from them. And so at that moment, we had to hire for our first location, I joined in January of 2019. In October 2018, we opened our first location. So as soon as we signed the lease for that location in early 2019, we knew we needed two doctors, five nurses, and a team to work the front desk. And being that there are only three of us, we all wore every single hat that we needed to thankfully, I stayed away from the finances, because that’s not my specialty. But I started hopping into talent. And that was my really where I really started becoming immersed in the world of talent. And it wasn’t until the company was growing, obviously, at a little bit of a slower rate due to COVID. And by the time I came back from maternity leave, the company had skyrocketed to five locations. And we needed to build a true talent department. And that’s when I moved into a head of talent role.

Serge Clivio 13:24
I think you would be surprised to learn that about Nicole, I was surprised to learn that about Nicole and I think it comes from where Nicole and I were really aligned was that the people that you hire, build the company, it’s not necessarily the competencies and the technical skills, obviously, they have to have that. But I think so many times recruiters and talent teams can focus solely on the skill set that’s needed for a role. But when you’re at such an early stage, I think the only way to be successful is to marry that equally with the culture that you’re building. And that has to come from your people. And I think that’s what makes the best talent people. And so I think for me, when I was interviewing with Nicole, that was what really sold me I saw her alignment on that. And so to find out that she had kind of just crawled her way into talent was very surprising to me, because I think that a lot of recruiters go a long time without realizing that’s kind of a secret sauce to success.

Rob Stevenson 14:24
Can you say more about that the secret sauce? Is that just the belief that the people you hire build the company? It’s not just about hitting quarterly goals?

Serge Clivio 14:31
Yes, I think there has to be so much more than that. Because people who are just working to hit goals are never going to kind of strive to be greater or strive to uplift other people. And I think at a company of our size and specifically on the HQ side when we’re around 40 people, you have to be able to uplift your cross functional partners and Be projects that you’re working on. And that comes sometimes without having the skill set to do that, right. Like, if I’m working with someone on the marketing team, I mean, I’m not a brand marketer, but I need to use my skills with them to help uplift them, which will help in turn, uplift me and then together grow the company. And I think that it’s hard to always identify, but a lot of people get stuck on the technical skills that you’re testing for. And that can kind of result in a higher that, yes, is technically strong. However, they’re actually not feeding the soul of the company, and therefore they’re not pushing others to do better. And it results I think, in turnover of people. So I think, in order to balance it out, it’s a really, really hard skill to understand. But what I think Nicole brings that is like, specifically to small door that is just you cannot find it as that she was that first employee, she knows small doors so well. And she carries it on her back that she will not allow a hire to have that other half, which is the actual DNA that they’ll bring to the company that will make others better. I think Nicole always is saying and I’m totally in alignment with you should always hire better each hire should be better than the last. And that’s the only way you’re gonna grow a company. And so I was very impressed with that when I was interviewing with Nicole. And I think that there are just so many talent teams out there who are just relying on KPIs, but that’s only a part of the mixture when you’re actually building your company.

Rob Stevenson 16:37
Yeah, and those technical abilities, those are kind of the same everywhere, every company, lots of means are hiring for the same sort of proficiencies. And as you said, search, you must clear that bar in a lot of cases, or at least you have to have like this is at least the minimum expectations. But then the rest of it is so important, as you put it, how do you assess someone for their ability to feed the soul of the company? What does that assessment even look like?

Nicole Mcleod 17:03
Yeah, good. Thanks, something when I was interviewing Serge, I think Serge is a really good example of a startup employee, which I’m using quotes for, because startup employees have tenacity, they have this ability to fight problems that they have, and come out on the better side of them and be able to move quickly through issues, collaboration, etc. And someone that I used to work with, really always taught me this culture is caught not taught, right. So if you hire everyone that has those similar qualities, outside of the technical qualities, you’re really going to continue to grow a strong culture versus you can’t really sit everyone in the room and say, This is our culture, step one.

Serge Clivio 17:46
And I think like when you’re actually assessing that, what’s really important to understand, and I always tell my candidates, this, if I’m sold on them after the first call, which now you’ll know if you interview with me if you’re going to move forward or not. But normally, I will tell them, like moving forward, obviously answer the technical questions that you’re asked. But if we’re moving you forward, we assume you could do the actual role. Like that’s not the question. If I’m doing my job, well, then you could do the role. It’s now about can you do the role here, which here being small door, and I think what we look for when we assess folks from the culture side is still asking the technical questions, but we’re not looking for answers that say, I accomplished this check, I accomplished this check. A lot of the best answers are, well, in my previous company, I was really faced with this challenge. And I worked through it and whether the result was good or bad, like, here’s what I learned. And here’s what I want to bring differently next time. Because I know we’re going to continually be faced with that challenge. And that allows us as recruiters to understand your problem solving skills when you’re faced with a new challenge at this company that you’ve never seen before. And so I think it’s really important to understand that that is such a way to understand the culture fit by asking technical questions, we’re really trying to assess and understand how agile Are you? Is your ego low enough to say like, I went through this, and these are the roadblocks I faced. And here’s what I would bring to make that better next time. Because that shows that it’s such a two way street, right. And I think that’s really important to look for in culture conversations.

Rob Stevenson 19:22
Yeah, the cultural assessment is always tricky. And I’ve been in companies where one company in particular, we had like a culture interview, and the way that they did it was they pulled out a bunch of people who they thought were exhibited the values and were you know exemplars of the culture, right? And then you’d go to the interview process of the candidate, and then you would have another interview with one of these cultural people, cultural ambassadors. Often they were not from the department that you were interviewing in, and I see what they were getting at, but it feels clunky. It feels like that sort of removes the responsibility of assessing for culture, and then the future teammates have people who are going to benefit by that person being a culture at or not, are not even assessing for it. So what do you think of like the culture interview? Do you think it makes sense as its own thing? Or should it just be everyone’s job?

Nicole Mcleod 20:10
I will happen here, because we just worked on this together as a company and reassessed after around four and a half years of being open and operated as to what values are we focusing on in the interview process for every candidate related to culture. And I don’t think it’s very fitting, I generally try to not have it as an own individual interview, I find that it feels out of line from the interview process itself. And the hope is that everyone at the company is a culture ambassador, and can really speak to the principles that make up the culture. And so what we’ve done as a company is we’ve pulled together a question bank, with our prince, our culture principles, and any Interviewer Who’s assigned a culture of value of hours, they can choose what they feel like is the best question to ask in that interview, given the candidate. But I do feel really passionate about keeping the interview structure very close to the actual role and the team instead of bringing in someone that maybe no one has mentioned before, just because they’re a cultural ambassador.

Serge Clivio 21:14
Yeah, everything’s a culture interview, right? Like the way that you’re answering questions and like situational and technical questions is also a culture interview, you are talking to someone from the company that you’re interviewing with, and you’re interacting with them. And ideally, they’re going to take away the interviewer, the panelist is going to take away from that what it would be like to work with you day to day. So I think to Nicole’s point, what we look for when we’re interviewing people is not just the actual answer, but the Can we envision having this kind of conversation out in a meeting room with them while we’re working through a solution? And what does that look like? Because a lot of times you can answer the question correctly, especially if it’s, if there’s a specific question, there’s probably a specific answer that you have. And it’s probably right. But it’s so much more about the how and how are you interacting? And so I think everything is a culture interview. And when you segment it to have a specific one, it’s very easy to fit into, like, is this the vibe of the company? And then we’re actually not mitigating bias at all? And we’re doing the complete opposite.

Rob Stevenson 22:20
Yes, that was so well put that everything is a culture interview everything from like, the emails that you write the correspondence you have with the, with the team or with the recruiter, or what’s the conversation with the person at the front desk, when you come into the office, like that’s all a part of it. And that is kind of how you assess someone’s, you know, ability to to, as you say, feed the soul of the company, I’m gonna stop stealing that again, search because I love it. But it’s like, if you take the assess someone on their ability to feed the soul of the company, slide it to the end in its own segment. And now it’s not so much how you answered questions and how you conducted and behaved yourself. It’s like its own test to pass. As a candidate, you’re like, Okay, I’ve met with four people I’ve met with, I met with a recruiter, I’ve met with a couple of people who’d be on my team, I’ve met with the hiring manager, I’ve met with the hiring managers, boss. Now I’m meeting with someone from the sales team. Weird, like, this is the first non engineer I’m speaking to, besides the recruiter, okay, I think I’m in a culture interview. And as you as you point out, like, now it’s something to pass now, it’s like, what is the right answer to say, as opposed to that being gleaned from the way you’ve behaved up until that point, not every conversation?

Serge Clivio 23:25
Yeah. And then it’s probably not genuine, right? Like, if I’m going into a quote, unquote, culture interview, I kind of want to align myself with who’s ever interviewing me so that they think I’m a good culture fit. And so then the whole thing just kind of feels fake, I feel like and so I like definitely recommend moving away from specific culture interviews, and everything should just be embedded into values, like Nicole is saying, and something that she’s worked hard on to to make the process be a values based interview throughout the entire loop.

Rob Stevenson 23:56
So to make it a value use base interview throughout the entire loop. Are there specific questions that you can recommend people ask? Or are you trying to coach people to read between the lines? How do you set people up for that kind of assessment?

Nicole Mcleod 24:10
Yeah, that’s a good question. I think I like what Serge was saying, I think, being really honest and genuine with how you approach certain situations when we get to a question that we deem as values-based, but they might not know its values-based. It’s really how we operate internally. So when you think about collaboration, and communication, and a lot of those values that we focus on, that is woven through every single role that we have, I would say, and this is really my recommendation for any interview, is really think about your own experiences, be really heavy with context, share more about the whys and the mistakes that you made and the learning similar, what Serge was saying, being very aware of the challenges and how You’ve rows from those challenges, I think are so critical and we talk about values-based, there might be a right answer. And there also might be a really easy answer. And that might not be what we’re looking for, we’re probably looking for the thought process and how you got there your experience with it, and how you moved forward and learn from that experience.

Serge Clivio 25:17
And I think for recruiters and hiring managers who are asking the questions, like, it’s really important to avoid closed ended questions, because what you’re gonna get when you ask closed ended questions are closed ended answers that are very just strict and to the point, but if you actually are asking an open ended situational question, you’re going to have much more of a conversation with that person. So again, right there, we’re understanding, okay, how will I converse? How will I work with this person? And what values are they holding when they’re working through a situation in our company? What

Rob Stevenson 25:50
is an example of a closed ended question?

Nicole Mcleod 25:54
I’ll ask when? Do you consider yourself a strong collaborator?

Rob Stevenson 25:57
The answer is yes. Because if you say no, you’re not getting the job. Right. Right. Exactly. Now, that’s

Serge Clivio 26:01
a good example.

Nicole Mcleod 26:03
Sorry, the way to tweak those questions to really focus on the situational questions. So share a time where you had a really challenging situation with collaboration, right show, I love in interviews, where a lot of times in interviews, we talk about what’s worked well for you share a time where you were strong collaborator, well, how about share a time where you struggled with collaboration, and that way you can understand their thought process of something that might not have gone the right way that they wanted it to? And how they rose from that occasion?

Serge Clivio 26:35
Yeah, it’s like, tell me about X, Y, and Z, a project you did. But taking it that step further in the questions like, Tell me about a project you did? What were the roadblocks? How did you overcome them? What was the result? And what did you learn, and then you’re also allowing for them to I think a lot of people when they’re interviewing, they think they have to show all their successes, because that’s what makes them be a good hire. Right? But I think if you open it up to like, just take me through a situation and your learnings, people are gonna have so much more, so many more examples. I mean, I think we fail a lot more than we succeed, right? So it’s okay to like, share those failures, if you can learn from them. And so I think it’s Yeah, taking it, like Nicole’s example of the closed ended question is just one sentence. Right? It’s like taking that question and expanding upon it.

Rob Stevenson 27:20
Yeah. I think in any interview the question you have to put yourself in the shoes of the person you’re interviewing and be like, What do I want to get from their answer? Is there a right or a wrong answer? There’s not there’s only something I learned about this person. And so are you a strong collaborator is a great bad example. Because it’s just like, they can answer it yes or no. And if they don’t answer it, yes, then okay, well, maybe you’re not ready for this or but to bed answer to a bad question. So whatever. Yeah, that’s just it. That’s a great example, Nicole, I love when this happens. You read my mind, because I was going to ask how to turn the closed ended question to an open ended one. And then you rattled off, like 15 examples. So thank you for making my job. So easy.

Nicole Mcleod 27:59
No problem,

Rob Stevenson 28:00
Nicole, I want to learn a little bit more. I should have done this earlier. But I’m not the interviewer. But anyway, in no time, like the present, like so many of the people I speak to, you kind of fell into talent, but then you find out that you really enjoy it, that it’s a really fulfilling career and a lot of ways so and she’s good at it. And yeah, and she’s effective and awesome. And a great podcast guest, et cetera, et cetera.

Nicole Mcleod 28:20
Thank you. Thank you.

Rob Stevenson 28:22
I’m curious. What’s next for you. You are in the head of talent role. Do you think he’ll continue in this space? Do you have aspirations to move elsewhere in the org? What’s what’s kind of your plan here?

Serge Clivio 28:32
I asked her this every day.

Nicole Mcleod 28:36
Yeah, that’s a really good question. I feel like I have so much more to learn about talent, feel like it’s endless. And I do really love talent. I’ve been in the people space for most of my career, and I spent about five years in the l&d space. So did a lot of learning and development and love that as well. And so if I were to leave talent, which I don’t have any expectations to do so in the near future, I probably would move back into that training, development world of people

Rob Stevenson 29:08
and search are you going to forge ahead in your career in town or are you just doing this until your record deal comes in?

Serge Clivio 29:14
Yeah, well, I do have a record deal but oh

Rob Stevenson 29:19
wait, that’s That’s news to me. Congratulations,

Nicole Mcleod 29:21
sir. Jazz nine live

Serge Clivio 29:23
I do have a lot of us. No, I think in all seriousness, other reason I love what I love people, obviously anyone listening to this podcast and Nicola Robina. This I could just talk to a tree I think and I, for me, meeting new people and learning new things is always so so exciting. And I find that talent is the best way to do that. And I also really enjoy like leaving a mark on a company and there is nothing that fulfills me more than looking back through a year and saying we hired X amount of people. And that was our team and the company’s successes XY and Z. And obviously that’s not because of us. But like, we had a founding footprint on the why of that. And I just think it’s so exciting, you also get to learn. I can’t think of a role aside from founders and like CEOs that actually touch every Oregon aspect of the business like, I am not a coder by any means. But through the years, I have understood what it takes to be a back-end, a front-end engineer, like I understand so much of an actual business and how it operates. And I just think that is never ending when you go into talent. When I came to small door, of course, I was like, Okay, now I’m like, a senior person. I like to know exactly what I’m doing. I’m going to hit the ground running. And I joined small door and I was like, What the hell business is this? It’s like, I have no idea what I’m doing. Recruiting for like a vet med company. I do tech startups all the time. But every company is so niche, and inventive, and innovative, rather, hopefully, that I’m joining Small Door was nonetheless like that. And like Nicole really had to rent me on a lot of the industry. And I’m still in all of our team meetings. Things shocked me about the veterinary industry, and it helps with my pitch and how am I also letting other people know what we’re doing and raising awareness because everyone we speak to whether we hire them or not, they’re going to take our company with them somewhere else. So I think I have no reason to leave it, it really excites me, especially when I join companies like small door that are just really disruptive and have so much more to Grow and Give

Rob Stevenson 31:37
I do really adore that about the talent discipline. And the talent function is that you have this ability to interface with the entire organization in a way as you point out search, that really only the CEO and maybe some other really high-level people do at this point, folks, we are creeping up on optimal podcast length.

Serge Clivio 31:54
Oh my gosh, I feel like we haven’t even gotten to the meat and potatoes.

Rob Stevenson 31:58
I know all the questions I sent over that we didn’t look at or read at all. That’s my favorite when that happens. But that’s because this has been so easy and fun chatting with you both. This has really been a delight. So I would just like to say to both of you, thank you for being here. And for all of you out there listening in podcast land. Nicola McLeod’s been in the cold McLeod search. clivia has been Serge Clivio, I’ve been Rob Stevenson and you’ve all been amazing, wonderful talent acquisition darlings. Have a spectacular week and happy hunting.

Serge Clivio 32:24
Thanks, Rob.

Nicole Mcleod 32:25
Yes, thank you for this

Rob Stevenson 32:29
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai