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Rabble Recruiting CEO Tammy Dain

Tammy DainRabble Recruiting CEO Tammy Dain

Creating deep, meaningful relationships is often pushed aside in the world of recruiting but the truth is, these relationships lead to better success in talent acquisition. Today on Talk Talent To Me, the wonderful CEO of Rabble Recruiting, Tammy Dain, joins us to discuss her unique recruitment model. Tuning in, you’ll hear all about how she fell into recruiting, the balance between being ready for a new opportunity and pushing yourself out of your comfort zone, why Rabble’s approach is so different from other recruitment agencies, and so much more! We even discuss the flexible work trend before delving into Tammy’s other company, Talent Collective. Finally, our guest shares advice for young recruiters.

Tammy also shares her insights in The Future of Tech Hiring: 8 Bold Predictions for 2024.

Episode Transcript

Rob Stevenson 00:05
Welcome to Talk talent to me, a podcast featuring the most elite talent leaders on the front lines of modern recruitment.

Speaker 2 00:12
We actually want to understand the themes of someone’s life, we want to understand how they make decisions where they’re willing to take risks and what it looks like when they fail.

Rob Stevenson 00:22
No holds barred completely off the cuff interviews with directors of recruitment VPs of global talent, CHR rows, and everyone in between. Once I went through the classes and the trainings and got the certifications through diversity and inclusion, I still felt like something was missing.

Speaker 3 00:39
Talent Acquisition. It’s a fantastic career, you are trusted by the organization. You get to work with the C suite and the security at the front desk and everybody in between and everybody knows you.

Rob Stevenson 00:52
I’m your host, Rob Stevenson. And you’re about to hear the best in the biz. talk down to me. Oh, yeah. Welcome back to the pod all of you wonderful darling, recruiting a munchkins out there in podcast land. So glad to have you back here. And I have a treat for you today, a very special guest who I’m excited about. I know I say that all the time. But this time, I mean, she is a woman with a ton of experience in the recruiting space. She was a director of talent, and then a senior talent acquisition consultant over at axiom. She is the founder of recruiting Rabel and also the talent collective, both of which you’re going to hear about today. Tammy Dain, welcome to the podcast. How the heck are you today?

Tammy Dain 01:33
I’m good. Rob. Thank you so much for having me. And I am a fan girl through and through of top talent to me so it’s honestly an honor to be here. So thanks for having me.

Rob Stevenson 01:43
This is the dream is sort of progression of like listener to guests. I love when that happens. It’s such a dream for me.

Tammy Dain 01:50
Yeah, dreams do come true. As one of my friends said when I told her that I was going to be on with you. So yeah, excited about it.

Rob Stevenson 01:55
They also say never meet your heroes. So we’ll see which way

Tammy Dain 02:00
it’s gonna be great.

Rob Stevenson 02:01
Let’s just spend the next 25 minutes on fleeting, my ego. What’s your favorite episode of Top talents?

Tammy Dain 02:07
Oh my gosh. Well, I’m gonna have to say the one that actually made this conversation right here happened. So you interviewed my client? Erica Sharon at Cisco. So I loved her episode. Obviously, you’ve done so many great episodes. can’t name them all. But it’s got to be Erica’s.

Rob Stevenson 02:25
Yeah, Erica, she’s a really effective pro talking her. Okay, this woman gets shit done. I think we’re maybe we’re overdue to have her back on because I was probably over a year ago. We had her. But she may be on to bigger and better things. Now. I haven’t caught up with her in a while. But yeah, that’s definitely a good one to go check out. I’m glad you listened to it. Tammy. I’m glad that it brought you here to the show. So glad to have you on. And, boy, we have plenty to talk about. I really want to learn about you first, though. Let’s make sure we introduce you properly to the audience. Would you mind sharing a little bit about your background? And then I guess how did you come to found recruiting rebel, let’s start there.

Tammy Dain 02:59
Yeah, I would love to share more. So like so many of your listeners, I stumbled my way into recruiting after undergrad obviously, I’m in the bucket of I didn’t say when I was a little girl I was gonna grow up and become a recruiter. But I very luckily found recruiting or it found me. I’ve been in recruiting for over 15 years now. Absolutely love it because of the people focus and having an opportunity to impact people at a really important moment in their lives. And I love it. My pivotal career moment was the career move. You mentioned when I was in house at a company called axiom and I was their Director of Talent Acquisition, I really rose through the ranks there from associate to Director of TA at the time that I left, I was managing a team of 19 recruiters and sourcers. And ultimately, we were responsible for the recruiting for an like over $200 million business. So it was a big job where I really learned a lot. I had a ton of great mentors and sponsors that helped me along the way and promoted me before I was ready for it. But you know, they rolled the dice and sometimes you win and it worked out. Thank goodness it It certainly did work out. That role ultimately led me to launch travel because as you know, when you’re a part of any big team, there’s always moving and shaking. There’s always unexpected departures. I’m like I thought you loved it here and there like two weeks notice. And there’s always leave coverages. There’s always hiring Sprint’s especially for us, in particular because our business was talent. We always had lofty recruiting goals. We always had goals that I thought we weren’t going to hit and we could have used extra talent to help us get there. But it didn’t necessarily make sense for us to hire somebody permanently and get permanent headcount because that work was going to go away after for three to four months. So I just thought to myself, why isn’t there a solution out there, that is now Rabble, where you can bring on an extra set of experienced hands to help you get through that period of peak hiring, when you need the support, or maybe it’s on the HR side. And that’s what we do. So that is raveled. Today, we parachute in recruiters, HR folks as well, as well as operational folks on demand for our clients. They work with us typically on projects that are three to nine months long, typically full time, typically remote, and our talent jumps in becomes an extension of the team for a few months time. And once they did their tour duty, they move on, and they go somewhere else and work for another industry or another great startup. So that’s my day job, let’s call it. And then what I like to do at night, on the weekends and in between all of the things is talent collective talent collective has been a lot of fun to talk to you about and launch this year along with my co founders, Natalie and Krista too, obviously incredible women who have incredible backgrounds in recruiting as well. And we both all realized at collectively a very similar time that there was something missing in the market in TA that there really wasn’t a group doing what we wanted to do in terms of bringing women together in recruiting, to support each other, and grow professionally. We all struggled at different points in our career to find really great mentors, and really great communities to help us grow our career. I can get into more of the details as we go. But in a nutshell, that’s what we launched this year, this incredible community for women in TA and we’re really excited to get the word out there about it.

Rob Stevenson 06:52
You know, Tammy, you said when you were kind of explaining your career progression a little bit that you had some really great bosses who rolled the dice on you. And that’s about me, because that’s how I used to describe the first real job I had. I was joining a very small company, I was like the first marketing hire. And I would say that to people. I was like, yeah, the CEO sort of rolled the dice on me. And I was kind of an unproven thing. And that brought my loyalty in some ways. But don’t you think that rolling the dice on someone for a promotion? is kind of the ideal? Shouldn’t you be like 30 to 40%? rolling the dice and giving them things they haven’t done before? Isn’t that what an opportunity is?

Tammy Dain 07:31
100%? Because that’s what’s also going to keep your top talent in your organization. So my other not so secret topic that I love to actually talk about is retention, and how do we actually keep the amazing talent that we worked so hard to get in the door? How do we keep them happy, healthy, motivated, and you do that by giving them stretch opportunities. I was at my last company, I was at axiom for almost seven years, because I basically had a new job every year. And they were constantly taking risks on me and giving me jobs that I was almost ready for. And that kept me coming back and just so excited to stay. So I really think that’s mission critical for any manager at any organization is to constantly give your talent the people on your team opportunities when they’re not quite ready for it. Because if they’ve been ready for it, that means they’re also interviewing elsewhere for that type of job.

Rob Stevenson 08:30
I was just thinking that if you wait until someone is like 100%, ready, then someone else has already it’s too late. Right? Someone else has already noticed that. And even if you do get them in time, I would be resentful. If it was if someone’s like, you know what, Rob, we feel like you’ve already been doing this job in a lot of ways. Like okay, great. Are you going to backdate my pay to reflect this? It’s like, you just confess that you’ve been underpaying me this whole time? That is even not even just like a promotion. But when you go to hire anyone, right? Isn’t it just like, there should like what do you think is the sweet spot of like, what percent of a job should someone have not already done to make it a real opportunity for them?

Tammy Dain 09:04
Yeah, I love that question. And I think if you ask it to any manager or leader person to you, they’re probably going to give you a different answer, right. But I’d like to say at least 60 to 70%, you should know enough about what you’re doing. But that remaining third should be an adventure, it should be what you’re excited to learn more about, it should be where you want to upskill it should be the piece of your next career adventure that you really want to upskill on. So you’ve got to know enough to be dangerous to add value and actually obviously get the job done or you’re not going to be kept. So you got to know enough but you obviously have to have room to grow to.

Rob Stevenson 09:44
Yeah, it depends on the role. I guess it depends on how high stakes the role is to you know, I don’t want my surgeon being like this is a stretch opportunity for me. Let’s see. Let’s see if we can do it or like an airline pilot or something.

Tammy Dain 09:54
Let’s see this doesn’t apply to like doctors and like scientists. Yeah.

Rob Stevenson 09:59
machine keyboard jobs. You know, maybe this is more apropos. Exactly. Okay. Yeah. Thanks for giving your take on that. I think that that’s worthwhile, not just for like yourself when you’re looking for promotion. But also when you’re sourcing candidates. It’s like you don’t want 100% fit, you know, you want someone who can for whom this represents an opportunity. It’s, I think, worth calling out. Yeah. But I’m really interested in the model of rebel recruiting, because it seems like it’s almost like this the way I have some friends who are like in consulting and the way that they attack projects with their consulting firms, it seems similar to the way that you are kind of attaching recruiters to companies. Is that a fair comparison?

Tammy Dain 10:39
Yeah, 100%. And thanks for asking if I can double click on it, because I really do believe the embedded recruiting approach, or the embedded talent approach is the future of work a big piece of the future of work. So what Rabel does, we hire our talent on to rappel so they become our employee, technically, but what they do and how we operate, they become an embedded member of our clients team. So whether they’re there three months or two years, they embed fully within the client, they’re going to the Monday Morning team meetings, they’re in their systems, they’re using their tools, their technology, they’re going to their own hands. A lot of our regulars even participate in the extracurricular stuff like the virtual happy hours, and you know, things like that, because their job is to become a member of the team for their tour of duty, and however long it is that they’re there. I’m super passionate about this approach as it relates to practicing recruiting and HR, there are a lot of models and solutions out there that if a recruiting team needs extra help, or an HR team needs extra help, they’ll take the work from the internal team, go off and do it kind of behind the scenes and up their desk and then deliver a product back to the in house department and then step away and to do that may be ongoing, there is a time and a place for that. So I don’t want to not say that that isn’t helpful and isn’t a good model, especially for certain companies, and depending on what their their team and goals are. But I think more often than not, the embedded approach to delivering recruiting services and HR is so much more effective. Because our recruiters and when you think about it, when you are actually on the phone, selling talent on where they’re going to be working, who they’re going to be working with, you need to live and breathe the culture and really understand the organization from the inside out. And so our recruiters and our talent can do that. And bringing it back to what we were talking about in terms of retention, we’re able to recruit better talent for our clients, because our recruiters truly understand who they’re recruiting for, like the DNA and the fabric of the organization just comes to life because they’re in it every single day. Same thing applies to our HR projects, you know, right, if you’re working with a company on their core values, and helping them think through that and who they are and their vision, you can do that work so effectively from the inside. So let’s say can’t be done when you’re on the outside. But it’s just another way to go about it. And I’ve seen it done quite effectively with this, you know, embedded approach to keep going with the model and how it works. That’s obviously the value that it brings to our clients and to the corporations that are leveraging the embedded approach. But there’s a ton of value in it for our talent that actually delivers the services. They love it because of the freedom and flexibility. You and I are both having this call like recording this podcast from our homes. And I love it so much because I didn’t have to spend the time in my car, driving somewhere, I’m able to like add value without a big time suck right and the same thing goes for our embedded approach still to this day even post COVID Most of our engagements are remote and will stay that way. Our talent loves the flexibility of that. And obviously all you have to do is open up LinkedIn to see that’s what the people want is that freedom and flexibility that we don’t want to just be compensated these days and dollars and cents. We want to lifestyle as well and do good work deploy good work, but also like have some flexibility. Flexibility isn’t the biggest selling point. Interestingly enough when it comes to talent who wants to operate like a consultant or freelancer might? It’s really the work itself. Now we’re all recruiters here. So I’m just going to say it i It’s a safe space recruiting is pretty routine stuff, right? I mean, it is like we’re doing the same stuff over and over again when we’re screening candidates, it’s fairly the same. Again, the thing that makes it interesting and different when you’re doing it from the inside with one company is if you’re doing it for different roles, right, you’re working with different hiring managers, you’re getting promoted. And again, that’s why I could do it for one company for seven years, because I constantly had a different role. So I’m not saying that you can’t have an interesting and rewarding and dynamic career being on the inside of one company for a long time. But it is hard to do, and it’s hard to pull off. So what we hear from our talent and why they love our model, and doing this work in an embedded fashion or consulting fashion you can kind of use the terms interchangeably, is because you’re doing it for different industries, you’re working for six months at an aerospace company, like we worked with an aerospace client based out here in the Bay Area called Astra. And then the next six months, you might be working with Erica at Cisco doing something totally different. And so that’s what keeps it, you know, really fun and fresh and dynamic. The last thing I’ll say to on it, Rob, is that I do really believe this is the future of work. There is a ton of noise about the gig economy, and a lot of people have a lot of opinions about it. I feel like there’s a lot of hype around it. And people were like all about it like a few years ago, and now people are like man, like gig economy, and it’s not really taking off, it’s not really happening. I don’t think it’s a light switch moment, right? I think people expected that all of a sudden, every role was going to be like a gig economy role or something like that. I think it’s a trend. And we’re just going to continue to see this trend rise, especially as we’ve seen what’s happened in the economy with COVID. And then now with this downturn, I think the use case and case for flexible work, and a flexible workforce is needed, because of what we’ve seen happen with the workforce. So I think it’s just a trend, we’re going to continue to see grow and grow. And talent needs to be aware of what’s happening and these career opportunities in the consulting world, because I believe more and more of them are going to be available. And that’s what it’s just going to be in the future.

Rob Stevenson 17:11
Yeah, the gig economy, let’s remember, was coined to represent the people who were like Uber drivers, or dash, like that was gig economy. And so like what we’re talking about now is like, will the gig economy permeate the cushy keyboard job I was talking about earlier. And of course, it’s going to take longer. And there are all these trappings of like, the full time job that are seductive, like the two week paycheck, and the healthcare and the 401k. Like, there are a couple of these perks that are kind of the domain of the full time job. And I think those are the holdouts like getting a mortgage is harder when you are like self employed. Yeah, when you kind of have a few different jobs with a few different companies. So it’s going to take time, but I tend to agree with you. I think it’s inevitable. I mean, I’m doing it right, like you’re doing it with the with your company. It’s like if I can execute this project for a company, and that only takes me 1520 hours a week, well, then what do I do with the rest of my time? Well, you do it for another company. So and that seems to be this is certainly a trend, like Will it replace all roles we’ll see. Yep. Now with the embedded model, though, and how important it is to have a cultural understanding coming into a company as an external recruiter. I feel like if you were to ask any other sort of RPO, or recruiting agency, if they can do this, oh, yeah, totally, we can totally do this. So what do you think is the difference? What is difference between your offering? And then what what an agency, founder or CEO might say, I’ve totally I can do that?

Tammy Dain 18:39
Yeah, I love it. Because there are similar solutions, like Rabble, you know, out there in the market. And I really think it starts with the business teams approach. And what I do with my clients at the beginning, which is really get to know them, and what they want, really listen to what they’re looking for, learn about their company and their goals and really care. This is all a safe space, right? I’m just gonna say it, you know, unfortunately, what I’ve seen in the agency world is that a lot of agencies are just out there to make money. Like, I’m just gonna say it, there’s a lot of great agencies out there. Let’s be clear, and I’ve worked with them. And I’ve been their clients. So they’re not all created equal. But I think it starts with the purpose of the relationship. And so I think there are a lot of agencies out there really driven by the monetary incentives that exist in the world, like the opportunity and hey, we all do have bills to pay so I get it, but with us and like where I’m coming from has always been from a place of wanting to help and wanting to serve and wanting to actually make a difference, like not having that ultimate monetary incentive as a goal. I too, have bills and also like to pay them on time. But I really think it starts with that goal of why are you here? Why are you trying to help your clients and from the rest stuff that the relationship evolves and grows and is dictated by that initial goal and that initial approach, and I really do think my clients feel the difference. And that’s why they work with me from company to company, they change companies, they bring us over. And they feel the difference as well. On the talent side, I hope all of our wrestlers, you know, feel that they’re not just a number, right, that I truly care about them and their career and what they want to do and where they want to go with it. And I think because of that care and thoughtfulness that we also put into our recruiting process, the talent is better. I’ve heard that same feedback from our clients as well, that they feel like our talent is really top notch and typically different and better than what they would see at an agency that might look similar to us. So yeah, I really feel like that’s how we make a difference with them.

Rob Stevenson 20:52
Okay, I like having this conversation. And I like having agency people on an internal because I want to illustrate for folks out there listening, the types of ways they can bring their skill set to market, right, I think it’s a really exciting time to be doing that, despite there being downturn, despite layoffs, despite like hiring, having slowed. The people who are really good at recruitment will still find a way, you know, always and I think this embedded model this like, oh, big four consulting approach to recruitment, I think it’s a really compelling opportunity for the right kind of person. So I’m curious, what do you think, for the talent pros out there? Under what circumstances do you think this is like a really good opportunity for them in a way for them to bring that skill set to market? Like I said,

Tammy Dain 21:35
Yeah, great question. So I think for someone who likes to be challenged constantly, like loves learning is always looking for that next thing that really excites them, they’re going to love and absolutely thrive in our model, because they’re going to be learning so much from engagement to engagement. Like I said earlier, they’re going to be working in different industries, working with different people learning different technology, when we talked about the market and the reality to have the gig economy and having to deal with the ups and downs of your paycheck and it fluctuating. It’s not going to be for everyone 100% like I totally get that and, and no, it’s not going to work for everyone. But if you have some flexibility on that side, maybe you have some savings, or you’re in a two income household. All of that is recipe to give this model a shot. Because like we’re saying, like, I really do believe it’s the future. And we’re going to see more and more of an embedded or flexible approach brought back to recruiting and HR. Obviously, we’re seeing unfortunately, a ton of layoffs right now, especially in tech and recruiting an HR is being hit probably the hardest, if not one of the hardest teams that you know, is getting hit during downturns. And I think as we see the economy picking back up, hopefully, next year, we’re starting to see a little bit of it now. And I think we’re going to continue to hopefully see some promising activity in 2020. For a lot of those companies, when they choose to hire again, a lot of them are going to hire in this way and hopefully be partnering with Ravel to do so because they’ll be cautious and thoughtful before they immediately open the floodgates to hire permanent talent. They’re going to bring talent on flexibly bring them on as a consulting talent. So I think it really behooves folks, especially if you’re in a moment of transition, you’re trying to figure out what’s next in your career, whether you’re an agency or in house, it really makes a lot of sense to consider becoming an embedded recruiter becoming a consultant, because we’re going to, I think, see a lot more of it in 2024. And if you can get experience at it, and become a really effective consultant, because there is an art to it. It is not necessarily just apples to apples, like being an in house recruiter at all. Like there’s a really special skill set and special skills you need to have to be really successful if you start honing that now it’ll just give you an advantage into 2024.

Rob Stevenson 24:10
Yeah, and I see this trend proliferating not just in talent, either this idea of like, Hey, we are your blank department, and we will paratroop into your company and we’ll give us a few months and we’ll execute this, this and this for you. I’ve been like tapped on the shoulder to like, join agencies basically who are that like, Hey, you don’t have marketers great where your marketing department now and Kathy another charging, it’s crazy. It’s like, oh, 100 grand a month to just like set up all of your marketing stuff, right? And then from the company’s perspective, it’s like, alright, well, that is easier than hiring all of you and getting you spun up and making like six hires for the marketing team. It’s like, oh, we can just have you paratroop in and then we can turn it on, turn it off. So it’s like it’s a good deal for the company. And then also, if you are like me, and you have you have ADD, and you’d like to do lots of different things all at once then it’s great because like you said, it wasn’t just a flexibility It’s like, Oh, do you not like this project you’re working on great, stick around and wait two weeks, and you’ll be on a new one. So I can see why it’s compelling. And like I said, I’ve seen this trend happen outside of talent. So I tend to agree with you that this is going to be more and more common. Now, we mentioned briefly earlier talent collective. And I want to make sure we spend some time there because this is awesome new community that you and a few others in the space have spun up. So I was hoping you could share a bit more about where it came from and what it is.

Tammy Dain 25:25
Yes, I’m so excited to so like I gave you in that little spoiler alert on talent collective. It is an incredible community designed for women in talent acquisition to come together, support each other and then grow professionally in TA in recruiting, we got started in the Bay Area, part of the goal of talent collective was to actually create in person live events, live networking and event opportunities for people to meet in person. Again, it’s funny that it sounds revolutionary that you’re like saying it out loud. But post COVID, there really hasn’t been a lot. So Natalie, Krista and I all kind of just saw this was a knee and we’re like we need to bring this back, we always wanted to have a virtual component with it as well. Because if you’re listening to this, and you’re from the Bay Area, you just know, the Bay Area it like takes an hour to get anywhere. So we knew that we’d always want to have a virtual component as well. So in addition to live networking, and happy hour opportunities, and big quarterly Fireside Chat events, with panelists and leaders in talent acquisition, we have monthly workshops, if not more than one workshop a month where you get to learn the latest and greatest as it relates to recruiting and what’s happening to our industry. And then my personal favorite component to the community are these boardroom groups, which maybe this is a term you’ve heard before Rob, personal board of directors, if you don’t have one, basically, we’re giving you one and creating one for you. For members, it really is the secret sauce and can really make a big difference in one’s career having that group, what we do with members who join and want to join a boardroom group is we pair them with another eight or so women that you meet with monthly for one year. And that’s the critical kind of linchpin there is that you’re following each other’s careers and helping each other and supporting each other with the hottest topics that are coming across your desk day to day. Some groups do have a particular recruiting focus, but many of them and most of them are actually a group of women at various stages in their career. The group I’m in, for example, there’s women that are more junior to me, there are women that our I would say my peer and then there are women that are more experienced than me and have been in recruiting even longer. And we’re all doing this knowledge exchange monthly. So that’s the community and like I was saying it was designed for the Bay Area. But it was really fun. Because as soon as we launched earlier this year, we got interest from women all over the country joining the waitlist, and it was just a really cool moment to be like, yes, people want what we’re building, yay. Like, you know that feeling Rob’s Oh, it was nice to see that. But then we were like looking at each other. We’re like, we already have this virtual component. We have virtual workshops, and we have the boardroom groups that meet virtually monthly, let’s just launch with another virtual membership vertical. So we’ve done that as well. So now women from across the country can join, which is really exciting. And just join our, our virtual offerings. And we did also launch an LA chapter that’s going to be getting built out soon. And Seattle is also coming. And I’m guessing the rest of the 50 states soon too, but not in the next month.

Rob Stevenson 28:47
The personal board of directors thing is I think particularly worthwhile because I received that advice early in my career, I was told oh, you need a personal board of directors, you need like a handful of people who are more senior and who you can go to with some of these, you know, who’ve done it before in your career, basically. And it was great advice, except for the part where I was like, no one who would agree to be on my personal board of directors is someone I want on my birthday. I was like I was like this fresh faced 23 year old kid I had nothing to offer. When you start a company and you get a board of directors you give them like equity, right? You give them like I had nothing to offer those people I was a you’re gonna do this because goodwill, because I’m gonna just like, you know, appeal to your humanity a little bit and hopefully you’ll help me. But that was a challenge I was presented with. So even just having people who have already opted into that that’s a tremendous asset, I think for the folks out there who might join. But when it comes to mentorship, what advice would you give to folks who you’re trying to, like, find folks to reach out to or find people who you can count on with with some of these harder career questions. How do you even assemble this group?

Tammy Dain 29:54
Yeah, the truth is, it’s really hard to do it and that was the impetus For me wanting to be a part of talent collective and launch talent collective, because very similar to you, my baby faced recruit herself when I was 2223 years old, I had my managers come to me and be like, Hey, you can’t go to me for every little thing in your little life, like you need to go out there and get your own mentors. And, and also, by the way, the way to become really good at your craft is to not just live in your own echo chamber bubble of an organization, you actually need to go outside of your organization and talk to other professionals figure out what they’re doing at their company, so that you can bring best practices back to your organization. 2.0 of that is actually going outside of your industry, and also taking best practices from outside of your industry and talking to people who are doing things totally different than you and then bringing them back to your field and adopting them to your craft. But that’s another podcast entirely. So for what we’re talking about, I have that exact same moment, Rob. And I was like, What do I do? Like, where do I find these people? Do I knock on doors? How do I go about this, and honestly sucked at it and wasn’t successful. Actually, my mentors that I have today are all my former managers. So poor thing, they probably graded me really poorly on my performance reviews. With that goal in mind and finding other mentors, I really didn’t find them until I left, the organization branched out and met more people. The classic opportunities are out there. I mean, back then, when I was earlier on in my career, I would go to different workshops that might be held at company A and you go to a workshop, you meet a few people, you collect business cards, but it’s really hard to maintain that connection without a catalyst or an impetus or a reason or an ability to kind of keep those relationships going. And talent collective makes it really easy to do that, because we built it for you. So now when you’re like, hey, I really want to network with this person I met three weeks ago, you can invite them to a talent collective event with you or invite them to a workshop and it creates opportunities to build relationships. So obviously total plug here for talent collective, but this is why we created it so that it it gives women especially like an opportunity to like build that board of directors meet other folks that are going to become their mentors, and hopefully their future sponsors from inside of organizations as well. And that continuous connection and learning is what fosters and creates really deep relationships. I myself have been experiencing it. My Network has grown because of the collective I’ll meet someone brand new at one of our quarterly fireside chats in San Francisco. And then I’ll see them on our workshop or they’ll pop up in my LinkedIn feed and we can like comment on things that we’re both interested in. And that’s what makes for a really sticky relationship that will organically and can organically grow into a mentorship relationships. So real plug here just because I wasn’t able to create something like this. Apart from having a collective or community like this, it is really hard to do without a way to do it.

Rob Stevenson 33:18
Yeah, yeah, of course. Well, Tammy, I think you’re onto something really huge here with recruiting rabble. And if I were in talent, I would really consider you know, the idea being an embedded recruiter. I think it’s a really fun way to bring your skill set to market like I said, and talent community is really providing great materials for folks out there. So we’ll make sure there’s a link in the show notes for people to check it out. And yeah, anything else you want to share with the folks out there in podcast land before we slide into home here?

Tammy Dain 33:45
Now just thank you so much for having me on. Rob. Like I said, this is super special to be on my favorite podcast focused on all things recruiting. So just thank you so much for having me and yeah, really appreciate the opportunity.

Rob Stevenson 34:00
Anytime, Jamie. Talk talent to me is brought to you by Hired, Hired empowers connections by matching the world’s most innovative companies with ambitious tech and sales candidates. With hired candidates and companies have visibility into salary offers competing opportunities and job details. Hired unique offering includes customized assessments and salary bias alerts to help remove unconscious bias when hiring. By combining technology and human touch, our goal is to provide transparency in the recruiting process and empower each of our partners to employ their potential and keep their talent pipeline full. To learn more about how we can help you find your next great hire, head to higher.com/tt2M