The Iceberg Theory of Sourcing

00:00 Rob Stevenson: Hello again, you wonderful rabble of recruiting pros you. Rob Stevenson here once more at the helm of your favorite recruiting podcast, and I am just thrilled as ever to be broadcasting this sweet, sweet, audio-based recruitment content into the ether for all of you. I’m coming to you again, from a blanket fort on the floor of a partially furnished Los Angeles apartment where I have cobbled together all manner of towels and blankets and pillows as my temporary recording studio. How about that? If this is your first time joining us and you’re thoroughly weirded out, [chuckle] don’t turn it off yet. I can explain. ‘Cause I can hear it now, you’re gonna go “Yeah, I gave Talk Talent To Me a try and this weirdo talked about his blanket fort and the ether for like 45 seconds. I don’t know what that was about.” Well, I’ll tell you what it’s about. Every week, I bring in a different one of my friends in the recruitment space, directors of recruitment, heads of talent, VPs of HR, you name it. If their title is even tangentially related to talent acquisition, I bring them in here and get them on the show. And they do one thing primarily…

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01:04 RS: Talk Talent To Me. And today, I have an old friend of the pod who is now a manager of global sourcing at Procore Technologies, Maisha Cannon. And Maisha is doing an amazing job in her new role of educating stakeholders and setting expectations in a way that kicks off the relationship and sets everyone up for success. So, if you have recently found yourself in a new role or expect to at some point in your career, which I assume all of you do, she has some great advice on how to get started. Also, Maisha really sees the long game when it comes to sourcing, and she’s deeply focused on the relationship aspect of hiring. What do you do when someone says, “Hey, I’m interested, but not now. So, call me back in six months.” Maisha details all of the minuscule, but really important tasks you have to undertake to make sure you have a shot at hiring that person in six months. And we kind of riff on how do you explain that process to someone internally who might only be interested in how many hires you made and how can you sort of put a metric on then? How can you document that so that this whole full scope of the sourcing process is made clear and sort of de-mystified internally?

02:18 RS: Really awesome episode. Can’t wait for you guys to hear it. And so with that, I will just get out of the way and let Maisha explain it ’cause she does a much better job of it. So please give a warm TT2M welcome to Procore Technologies’ Global Sourcing Manager, Maisha Cannon.

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02:43 RS: Maisha Cannon is in the e-building. Maisha, how are you?

02:46 Maisha Cannon: I am fantastic. How are you, Rob?

02:48 RS: I’m doing so great. I’m in, again, in my makeshift recording studio/beat lab/blanket fort, and I’m feeling good. This is our third or fourth podcast we’ve done together?

03:00 MC: Yeah, I feel like it’s the third. Third time’s a charm, right?

03:02 RS: I love it. Hopefully, this will be the best of the lot. But let’s not make that kind of promise. Let’s…

03:08 MC: Okay, yeah. Yeah, keep expectations in check.

03:10 RS: Yes, exactly, exactly. [laughter] So I’m in Los Angeles, you’re in Toronto, having just moved there. You got a new role, right?

03:20 MC: Yes, and I’m actually… I’m still a West Coaster even in Canada, so I’m in Vancouver. Toronto is like the New York of Canada and yeah, I’m here in British Columbia, just relocated with Procore because I got a little promotion of sort.

03:35 RS: Oh, congrats.

03:36 MC: Thank you.

03:37 RS: Well-deserved.

03:38 MC: Thank you.

03:39 RS: I assume. I don’t know how… [laughter] What you been working on, we haven’t caught up in a while, but I was [03:45] ____. [chuckle]

03:46 MC: Right. [laughter] I like your honesty, but let’s keep it right there. [03:49] ____.

03:52 RS: Just like an unbridled support ’cause she’s my friend.

03:56 MC: Exactly. Gotta love it.

03:58 RS: So, what’s the new job?

04:00 MC: Yeah. I am going to be leading a very small but mighty sourcing team, so I’m the manager of global talent sourcing now. Procore has this office in Vancouver, also I’ve been in Toronto actually. But I decided that Vancouver would be a great change of pace without changing my time zone, so here I am.

04:18 RS: Got it. So how long have you been in the new role?

04:22 MC: Maybe already a couple of months, and I just made the move about three weeks ago. So, I would be on the floor under a blanket too if I hadn’t rented a furnished apartment, so I feel your pain.

04:31 RS: That was smart. I didn’t even think about furnishing.

[laughter]

04:34 RS: Manager global talent sourcing. Okay, got it. So what does that mean exactly?

04:39 MC: Yes. So I’ll be leading a team of sourcers that will support, not only the tech side, which is kind of been my area of expertise over the past couple of years, but also getting back into the G&A side of recruiting. So doing revenue and operations, so the full stack throughout the entire org, so that’ll be exciting.

05:00 RS: Got it. How many roles are you responsible for building pipeline for now?

05:04 MC: We’re a very small team, so we kind of do it on a business need basis. But I think my counterpart, Jaime and I, right now we’re handling probably anywhere between, I would say, 10-15 roles at a time with different layers of support and different levels of support for the org. So hopefully, when we add another sourcer in the next couple months, we can maybe increase that number. But right now, it’s really strategic sourcing support.

05:29 RS: Right, right. But even… It’s not like you have 10 or 15 roles, and then you’re done like some other smaller companies. “Okay, these are all the open roles our company has.” You will probably perpetually have 10-15 on your plate until you hire someone else or [05:45] ____, right?

05:46 MC: Oh yeah. No, definitely. You know, you’re absolutely right. We’re in that growth phase still, so we are at about 1500 employees now. I think we were at about… I feel like we were at 1000 when I started, so we’ve grown a lot even in just in the 18 months or so. We’ll always have a need… We have a couple of hundred of heads to fill, usually every year, so there’ll always be something for sourcing to pitch in on.

06:13 RS: Right, right. Oh yeah. I meant to ask you to explain what Procore does. That’s something that good podcast hosts are supposed to do.

06:21 MC: I’d.

06:21 RS: Gather it took me 200 odd episodes to realize that. But for the folks at home, and candidly myself a little bit, can we hear a little bit about what Procore does?

06:30 RS: Of course. It’s so funny that I appreciate Procore even more now because I was living in the burbs of Henderson, Nevada, and now that I’m downtown Vancouver, all I see out of my windows are cranes, so Procore is right in its sweet spot here. It’s essentially a software app that we built to disrupt the construction industry, so it’s an app that anybody on-site at these multimillion dollar construction edifices that are going up all around the globe.

07:00 MC: They can access their quality and safety records, access the blueprints. It’s a one-stop shop for anybody related to construction. That’s what we do and it’s being done all around me, so I cannot appreciate it more than I do now, with all of the growth going on here in Vancouver.

07:18 RS: You mean Henderson, Nevada isn’t draped with construction at all times?

07:22 MC: I don’t remember seeing one crane in my three years there for some reason.

07:28 RS: Well, now that we’ve lost all of our listeners in Henderson, Nevada for taking a swipe at a city I know literally nothing about except you lived there. But yeah, congrats on the new gig. I wanted to ask a little bit about that workload, that 10 to 15 open roles you have. Did you just inherit that number? Has that been the process of some bandwidth calculation? How did you arrive at that amount of people that you will always have on your plate?

07:58 MC: What’s funny is that I’ve just reverse engineered to figure out a better system. Because I think to your point, it was very organic when I started, and just really saying yes to anyone that needed… My recruiting teammates, they needed help taking on more and more. But at a certain point, you have to scale out even what you can do as one person.

08:21 MC: Then we added Janie, my teammate and we’ll add someone else. I think we’re still trying to get to that right number. But what I’ve recently done is I come up with a little service level offering. I’m an English major, so everything is an acronym in my brain.

08:36 RS: Yes.

08:37 MC: It’s called POQ. Three levels of service that we can provide as we grow our team. The first one is just prospecting, so that’s just research. So you come to me with a role. I can’t maybe dedicate a lot of hours to it, because of bandwidth, but I can build a project for you in LinkedIn Recruiter. You get your 200 leads and you’re off and running with the research.

08:58 MC: The second option is something called outreach, and that’s where maybe I have the bandwidth or someone on my team has the bandwidth and we can now, in addition to that research that we’ve started for you, actually send targeted campaigns through Gem, which is formerly ZenSourcer, so you know them well.

09:15 RS: Yeah.

09:16 MC: Get the outreach out, make that warm introduction to a candidate, and hand off to the recruiter through the outreach part. The last offering, which is what we’ll do probably less often, but for those very niche roles or high level roles and VP roles, director roles, we’ll do prospecting, outreach and re-qualification.

09:40 MC: That’s taking it back to what I did at Google and LinkedIn, where the sourcer is actually the one on the phone with the prospect, talking to them, sensing out their needs, finding out if it’s a good fit. If it is, getting them right away, just put into the hiring process. With those three tiers, now we’ll be able to free ourselves up to take on 10, 15, maybe 20 roles at a time because not each one will have the same level of commitment.

10:06 RS: Yeah. I love the presentation in that framework. Not just in terms of explaining what you do so that you can level said expectations, but in the education piece, because it’s easy to take for granted all the parts of your job that are obvious to you now that you been working in that function for a long time. But you have to remember that people who aren’t in that function, they might not realize that, “Oh yeah, so there are these three parts of the process. Here’s what you can expect from me and then this is going to kick off a much better relationship if you know exactly what I’m working on and how this process works.”

10:40 S3: I’ve done it in marketing too, and it’s like, okay, when I first started at Hired, there wasn’t this demand gen mentality that the sales team was really familiar with. So I had to be like, “Hey, here is how content helps you. Here is how marketing is going to help you generate leads and names for you to call and close business, and then you can do the same thing with on the sourcing arm.” It’s just like, how do we position ourselves not just as order takers and role fillers, but as a good strategic partner? And that education piece has to often come first. Especially with…

11:11 MC: Yes. Say it louder for the people in the back. That’s what I’m saying. Yes. You’re preaching to the choir right now. You totally get it, and I love what you said about educating the stakeholders. Sometimes as recruiters and sourcers, we think of that as the hiring manager, but what I’m finding is even educating my peers, even some recruiters aren’t 100% clear on what sourcers do or what their value is. So yeah, that’s a great point about education and then just reinforcing what we once knew, but maybe what we got too busy with work and we forgot about. Just back to basics, really.

11:49 RS: So do you have a slide show for POQ, or is it an e-book that I can… I’m sorry. Literally every piece of stimuli I receive goes to the filter of content marketing, so it’s, “Wait. [12:01] ____? This has to… We have to use this.”

12:04 MC: No, I should get something working though. Right now, I was just living in a Google Doc. But I like where you’re going with it. We do need a one-pager that’s really digestible for hire managers, and even for the team as I roll it out en mass, to really drill it and bring it home. So thank you for that marketing eye.

12:24 RS: No. Yeah, you’re welcome. Or maybe we turn it into an e-book, put it on Amazon, and make a lot of money. Who knows?

12:29 MC: Okay, a little POQ money for our trouble. I like it.

12:36 RS: That’s… Yeah, that’s a good [12:37] ____. That’s… [chuckle] That’s good news, by the way. Stay tuned, podcast land, to Rob Maisha ebook about sourcing framework.

[chuckle]

12:45 MC: With [12:45] ____.

12:47 RS: Yeah, exactly. So speaking of things that should be books, you gave me a teaser trailer in an email forever ago, and I actually just stumbled upon it when I was going through emails recently about your Iceberg Theory of sourcing.

13:04 MC: Oh, that’s right, yeah.

13:06 RS: So I was hoping you could tell me more about that.

13:09 MC: Yes. Well, it’s one of those ideas that I’ve been kind of just thinking about on occasion. And I’m sure you’ve seen a random meme on social media at some point of the iceberg, and what’s seen from the outside is this little, small piece at the top, but what’s going on underneath is the part that sometimes people don’t think about. And that part of the iceberg, actually, that depth is where things get interesting, and where things are worth exploring. So I was thinking about that as it relates to a lot of different things, but specifically sourcing. And I think there were some unique epiphanies that I was having as I was kind of thinking it through.

13:53 RS: So what are the epiphanies? I’m on the edge of my seat here.

13:55 MC: Right. [chuckle]

13:56 RS: If I had a seat, I’d be on the edge of it. I’m on the floor. I’m on the edge of my floor.

[chuckle]

14:02 MC: Right. Still with the blanket though? Right? You’re still covered?

14:05 RS: Yeah.

14:06 MC: Okay, good. [chuckle] I think, for me, it was thinking about some of the frustrations that I’ve had as a sourcer over the years, and some of the work that kind of goes unseen… Well, it definitely goes unseen, not just by leaders in an org, not just by your peers, but just by anybody related, any of your stakeholders that are connected to you from the onboarding team. One example you can think of new hire orientation, and they’re given X times a month. And when you think about the rigidity of having, say, one date in a month where you can start new people, and you think about the 30 days in between each, and how much goes on in the life of a sourcer or a recruiter who’s trying to close a candidate, and how much goes on in that candidate’s life that determines and impacts when is a good time to start, and how their family will be impacted by these decisions they’re making, and sometimes things can’t… We boil down into just one start date, or one checkbox on a list.

15:14 MC: So I just started thinking about all of those things that I do as a sourcer that many of my peers do every day, from experimentation, trying new techniques, from the learning that we do, seeking out the experts in our field to try to get inspiration to do our jobs better, to the practice that we’re doing daily. [15:32] ____ talks a lot about that intentional daily practice that has to go into a thing before you can call yourself good at it or an expert at it. So I was just thinking about all of those things. And none of those come out in the wash, because all we talk about in our offices as relates to sourcing are hires, “How many people did you hire?” [chuckle]

15:56 RS: Right. Right. And I was… You took the words right off my mouth. I was about to say all those things you’re describing, none of it really gets documented, there’s not a record of you cross-referencing spreadsheets or about you following up with someone to just be caught up on where they are in their career at the moment.

16:11 MC: Right, that’s such a good point. I don’t think a lot of it is documented, not with consistency or intentionality, but I… There are some systems, like Gem for instance, that used to ZenSourcer that helps you kinda track that activity on an automated basis versus manually, so it can track how many people you’ve viewed in LinkedIn Recruiter, and how many people you actually reached out to. So that’s a metric that you would never wanna track manually, but something that their software can do for you. So that’s a plus. And I try to use other tools that help me kinda track all the activity. But to your point, you’re right, you cannot even itemize or really, adequately capture everything you do in the life of… The life cycle of the role, from the time the role came to you to the time that you filled it, or at least presented people on a slate to be considered for it. You can’t… How could you track it? It’s a mix of everything. It’s a mix of your years of experience, and the articles you read last week on Harvard Business Review, and then something you heard on the subway when you were commuting that kind of all came together and then inspired you to, “Ah, let me go check out Stack Overflow’s new developer survey. Let me go check out this,” which leads you down the path to finding that person.

17:31 RS: Yes, absolutely. And that’s in the last… I don’t know, 10-15 years maybe, is this shift in what is the expectation for a sourcing pro. Because now that people are relatively easy to surface in terms of, “Oh, here’s their name, here’s their title, here’s their email address,” or even phone number in lots of cases, it’s less about just generating a list of names, and more about facilitating this conversation and relationship so that… Because the previous model, it was like, “Okay, unless they’re ready for a job change at that precise moment you reached out to them, then forget about it,” right? And so you have to be ready to stay on their radar, and continue following up until such a time that they’re ready, so you can play this long game as a sourcer. And so has it always been relationship-based that way? Is that… Was that unfair for me to say that there is that shift taking place?

18:21 MC: No, I think you’re absolutely hitting the nail on the head. Because you’re right, and I think you used the perfect terminology there with the, “easy to surface.” You could be finding contact information or something, that’s just half the battle. And that Iceberg Theory is talking about, “Seek out the fuller story beyond what is on the surface,” like, “What you see is 10% of the iceberg. So okay, great, you saw it. Now, you need to start digging.” And I think that is a shift, and hopefully one that we can make collectively as an industry to start now getting beneath the surface, understanding the nurturing, which is what you’re talking about, like, “How do we nurture these leads that we’ve identified through… Yes, all of the great search engines, and the easy email finders. Yes, finding the contact info was a cinch, but now it begins. And what do we have, from a content marketing perspective, of value to say to this person once we get them on the phone or get their attention in an email?” Yeah, so there’s a lot more to think about beneath the surface, and I think that’s what is exciting, right? Because that keeps your wheels spinning.

19:29 RS: Yes. And back to what you said about how people only ever ask how many hires did you make, I wonder what the reporting might look like for these cases where it’s like, okay, we reached out to 200 people this week, and okay, now we’re reporting on standard [19:47] ____ metrics, this many got back to us, this many are in phone screen, this many are on face-to-face, etcetera, etcetera. I wonder if there’s the phone screen-adjacent funnel stage in terms of a life cycle stage for a lead, where this person said, “Not now, but follow up in six months.” So now we’re reporting on the funnel down the line from now. Now we’re judging interest and engagement that’s pre-lead.

20:16 RS: And it gets a little squishy because there’s not an exact one-to-one with marketing, there’s… I guess you could describe it as someone who has been on your website but not really demonstrated any real intent to download content or engage with you, they’re pre-funnel. But more and more that nuance is important, and because if that person could… Based on a conversation you had with them, they might say, “Hey, it’s October, I’m gonna get a $20,000 bonus January 15th, I can’t leave right now, but call me in mid-January, we’ll do this then.” And I don’t know, is that meaningful to even report on, is that something that a hiring manager or whoever the stakeholder is, is that interesting insight? How do you package that so that people can see the iceberg of sourcing and know that you’re doing meaningful work, even if you don’t have a hire to report on with a chunk of the people you reached out to?

21:15 MC: Right, yeah, you said a mouthful there. One thing that you… One term that you mentioned that I wanna borrow and start using is the pre-funnel. I think that’s important to start thinking about what that looks like. And there’s a number, probably a magic number in marketing, I don’t know what it is offhand, of how many touches it takes before someone will give you a call back, reply to your email, XYZ, and we haven’t been able to track those successfully over time in the past in sourcing and recruiting. But now with analytics, and all of these great pieces of software, and Chrome extensions that can do a lot for a lot less money, we are now in this huge space where we can now start to analyze that, to your point, how many people landed on the careers page, started in that but then dropped off. And can we somehow, through the information that they have started to give us, can we follow up with them or send them a shortcut application and say, “Hey,” just like when you’re shopping online, you’re like, “Hey, you didn’t finish your purchase, here’s a 10% discount.”

22:15 RS: Yes, exactly.

22:16 MC: “Come back to us.” Yeah, so [chuckle] you’re right to ask how do we make it valuable? How do we make this interesting for those in our business who are so close to the closing, and they wanna know who got closed out as a candidate, who are the hires, but how do we help them to see that analyzing all of this, all of this data that’s happening beneath the surface, is actually gonna help us better predict how many people we can hire in a quarter. And if we are properly staffed to have this huge stretch goal that you’ve given us come to fruition, we need this data. It’s not just a nice-to-have, it’s a must-have. How else can we meet the business goals without this data? And it seems like recruiting is often that department that doesn’t get the tools that give you all that data and all that access that in sales maybe you would automatically get. You would automatically get all this information on a lead.

23:17 RS: Yes, yes. And now that we’re talking about it, it’s occurring to me, this sort of reporting does exist in marketing. And you might be able to say, okay, when this person… When we first engaged with them, even if it was just them landing on a website, you cookie them. So then at such a time when they convert, now you get all that information about them. So even if they converted on something in April and they had all this website activity beforehand, for that year beforehand, when they convert now you have all that information on them. And so you can then report on, be like, “Hey, here’s a report I ran that’s people who landed on this page and then didn’t convert for a year, which just goes to show you that these pages on our website are all really influential, even if they’re not reporting on opportunity value tomorrow.” I know this is jargon-y, but the point is that kind of lead journey exists in recruitment, and there’s been no way to talk about it until the dawn of these CRM tools. And it’s still not that simple, though, because that story really isn’t interesting to a leader of a department until it has resulted in some kind of, in your case, hire.

24:29 RS: So if I were to tell my VP of Marketing, “Hey, here’s this long journey that’s happening,” but it’s generating no customers, it’s like, “Alright, well, Good luck, Rob. Go keep trying to make that [chuckle] one page of the pre-funnel super influential.” But once I have one conversion, one, “Hey, this deal came in from this person,” now it’s interesting. And so you can keep reporting on it, but because it’s a long play, until it results in a hire it may not… It’s gonna be an uphill battle trying to sell someone internally on the value of it.

25:02 MC: Right, and that’s a… So you call it a lead journey, that’s interesting, I may need to figure out how we can get the equivalent in recruiting. But what I thought about [chuckle] when you were talking about this is that it’s not interesting until it is. Until that data point that I mention and say in an anecdotal weekly update to my hiring partners that says, “Oh yeah, and I happened to talk with someone at MuleSoft,” or “I happened to talk to someone at Databricks, and they said that they’re gonna be downsizing in their… This office in this city is going to be depleted by 50% of the people.” That’s not interesting until we realize, oh wow, we have an opportunity there, why don’t we do a soft campaign to those people and get them over here? And then we get those wins, now all of a sudden that anecdotal piece that I included that had nothing to do with the hire, it had something to do with what I learned on a phone screening, now all of a sudden that’s a business make or break. That’s like, oh wow, we’re so glad that we got that inside scoop. So how do we emphasize how this anecdotal reporting or whatever meaningful touches that we can bring in from our day-to-day grind, how can we emphasize their importance to people who maybe don’t see the value until the end game?

26:17 RS: Yes, exactly, and once… Until there is that, if that’s the hire, if that’s the part of the process that someone’s fixated on, until that happens, they’re just like, “Oh, so Maisha is having great phone conversations with people. [laughter] Awesome, doesn’t really move my needle.” But then once the… “Hey, remember, when I told you that that little nugget I got three months ago, that there was gonna be downsizing. Well, guess what? It happened, and now we have [26:42] ____ process.” I only learned that because bothered to have that follow-up conversation with someone. So that’s just a really… That’s just a difficult journey, and I think… I don’t know if I have the answer, but it’s something that recruiters need to… And sourcers need to be really thoughtful about how they present because they just have to sell this long game to stakeholders. And if you have a boss or a hiring manager who thinks that way and who understands that journey, then congratulations, and this podcast episode isn’t for you, I think it’s… [laughter] I don’t know.

27:16 MC: Keep your job, don’t go anywhere else. Stay there. [laughter]

27:19 RS: Yes, yes, be grateful, be grateful.

27:21 MC: Yes, and again, I keep… That journey word, it really resonates with me because it is a journey, and hiring a person, a human being who has a life, who has a job… If we’re talking about sources, let’s be frank, we’re walking up to somebody who has a job and saying, “Leave what you know for what you don’t know.” So if we’re gonna get real about what we’re doing, we have to understand it is a journey, it’s not even selling widgets, it’s not selling a software suite, it’s not selling a Sharpie, it is a journey, a mental journey, and the timing has to be just perfect, and the opportunity has to be just right, and the interview process needs to be tight. That’s another piece we don’t talk about when we’re putting this onus on sourcers and recruiters to go find “top talent.” Well, what is your hiring process like when we get the top talent in the front door? How many hoops of fire do they have to jump through as a source prospect who’s not actively looking to get in? And all of those data points that we collect, whether their experience is good or bad, can help us make that whole proposition, that whole journey, stronger for the next candidate. And that’s what we should always be keeping in the back of our mind, no matter how great or award-winning we think our processes are.

28:37 RS: Yes, exactly. Maisha, I don’t think I’m gonna find a better bookend than that, I feel like [laughter] you really laid it down there. So I don’t know what else to say, I’m just really glad that you found the time to come and chat with me, and congrats on the new gig.

28:53 MC: Thank you.

28:55 RS: And yeah, we’ll stay in touch, we’ll be putting out lots of e-books and…

29:00 MC: Yes. [laughter]

29:00 RS: Whatnot for the hungry, hungry mouths for recruitment content that exists.

29:05 MC: Yes, laughing but very serious.

[laughter]

29:09 RS: Exactly, that’s the Maisha brand in a nutshell right there.

[laughter]

29:12 MC: Exactly. [laughter] It’s been great, Rob, you always bring out the best in people, so I just wanna thank you, too, just for this forum. My third time here is such a pleasure and such an honor that I do not take lightly, so thank you for having me.

29:24 RS: Oh my gosh, you’re so welcome. And you can be on this any time, and when I’m in desperate dire straits for a podcast episode, I’ll remember you said that and email you again.

[laughter]

29:36 MC: Right, five-minute notice, let’s talk.

29:38 RS: Yeah, we’ll do it. Okay, Maisha, you’re wonderful. Congrats on the new role, and thank you so much. And yeah, we’ll talk soon.

29:45 MC: Awesome.

29:46 RS: Well, that just about does it, I think, for all of us here at Talk Talent To Me. Once more, I’ve been Rob Stevenson, Maisha Cannon has been Maisha Cannon, and you’ve all been amazing, wonderful, beautiful, talented, recruiting darlings. Have a spectacular week, and happy hunting.

[music]

30:12 RS: Talk Talent To Me is brought to you by Hired, a double opt-in global marketplace connecting the best fit active talent to the most exciting recruiting organizations. If you would like to learn more about how we can help you find your next great hire, head to hired.com/employers, and we’ll get started.