Today on Talk Talent To Me, we are joined by career and leadership coach Amy Scialdone. After 25 years in corporate, her passion for developing people moved her to start her own executive coaching and leadership development company called The Empowerment Key.
[0:00:06.1] RS: Welcome to Talk Talent to Me. A podcast featuring the most elite talent leaders on the frontline’s modern recruitment.
[0:00:12.8] FEMALE: We actually want to understand the themes of someone’s life, we want to understand how they make decisions. Where are they willing to take risks and what it looks like when they fail.
[0:00:22.7] RS: No holds barred, completely off the cuff interviews with directors of recruitment, VPs of global talent, CHROs and everyone in between.
[0:00:31.1] FEMALE: Once I went through the classes and the trainings got the certifications through diversity and inclusion, I still felt like something was missing.
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[0:00:53.0] RS: I’m your host, Rob Stevenson and you’re about to hear the best in the biz, Talk Talent to Me.
[0:01:00.0] RS: Joining me today on Talk Talent to Me is a career HR and people leader. Now, she’s spending her time elevating people into the C suite, career coaching, I’ll let her tell exactly what it is she does because it’s best stating that I don’t want to butcher it too badly. Amy, Scialdone, welcome to the podcast, how are you today?
[0:01:17.6] AS: Hi Rob, thank you so much for having me.
[0:01:20.5] RS: I’m so pleased you’re here, how are things on your end, how was your week, is it crazy, is it hectic, are you humming along, how are things?
[0:01:27.1] AS: Humming along this week, thank you, absolutely. How about you?
[0:01:32.1] RS: Yeah, not too bad, just podcasting my heart out, you know? It never ends, I’m on this content treadmill, just doing my gosh darndest to bring people these conversations they so crave but I love it. It’s fun.
[0:01:42.8] AS: Nice, I love what you’re doing.
[0:01:45.5] RS: Thank you.
[0:01:45.6] AS: You’re doing great work and people are getting a lot of good information from this, so I appreciate you having me.
[0:01:50.3] RS: I hope so, yeah. They’re going to get a ton of help and vision from you, I’m certain. Did I butcher your curriculum vitae too badly there at the top? You’ve done so many different kind of things and you’re a really interesting person, so I wanted to make sure I summed that up properly. I guess for the folks at home and me too apparently, could you maybe sum up what exactly it is you’re working on right now and kind of your journey to getting there?
[0:02:12.5] AS: Sure, absolutely. Now, I am in this phase of my career, I started my own executive coaching and leadership development company called The Empowerment Key after 25 years in corporate to your point. I started in sales, moved into sales management and then was moved into HR and became the head of HR, and have a really cool career and media for a long time. And then found this passion that I was doing and the thread of what I love to do, which is coaching, developing talent, developing the next generation of leaders. I love that work. It’s been something that I realize was something I was doing from the beginning.
[0:02:56.9] RS: Yeah, that part of your journey stands out to me because you toiled away in corporate as you say for a long time, and wound-up VP of HR for the New York Post. Quite a title, quite a company, presumably from there, you could have drummed up a similar role at any number of other organizations. You could have gone smaller, you could have gone in a million different directions at that point, right? Cushy VP level, title, really brand name company. Why pivot and then go the coaching route and kind of reinvent yourself a little bit?
[0:03:28.0] AS: Great question. It’s so funny because as I was doing the pivot and really getting excited about focusing on the one thing I really loved the most and figuring that out. And into again, 25 years into my career really figuring out what it is I loved the most, it was all about developing people, developing talent, and I can do that as a head of HR or a number two for global head of HR. I almost did do that and another media, a TV company, to work for someone really fascinating. And in the end, it just – it was meant to be that I was to go on this path and this journey.
I started it and I had people reaching out saying, “Hey, can you come do that management training for me that we did when you used to be here?” Because I did a lot of it once we built our HR department for a bunch of my sister companies throughout news corp. And they will just come send their people to the training. It was the thing I loved the most, even as moving into the head of HR role, I was delivering the management training to different level leaders, new managers up through senior leaders which is really exciting.
It just kind of happened and became – it became its own thing and took off. I actually didn’t look back. And I was given advice from a partner who was a really – has an amazing recruiting company and she goes, “I think you have one more big corporate job in you and then you can always go do coaching.” But the coaching was just calling and I had a great opportunity to work with someone I met who was an executive coach and had her thriving business, she was amazing and gave me an opportunity to do some partnering with her and her organization, it was fantastic, learned so much and it just took off from there.
[0:05:21.3] RS: It strikes me that you may have taken your own advice before you codified that advice, let me explain what I mean. There’s really frequent thing I hear, I’ve spoken to a handful of leadership coaches on the show and there’s this great question that a lot of them pose and it is; reflect on the times in your career, what are the highlights of your career, right? What are the things that you really – when you think about, “That was really great that I did blank.”
The goal is to like, okay, try and figure out ways to do more of that, right? You’ll be happier and more fulfilled at work. You ran that exercise and you thought about the times where you had elevated people and how people reflect on their own growth and now, here you are incorporating around that activity.
That to me is like, the proof is in the pudding for you, it’s like, “Hey, this really works because you yourself did it.” You followed that advice and now you have a role that you really love, it sounds like.
[0:06:18.5] AS: I do and you’re absolutely right, I look back and the things I did for myself and I was coached around doing, when I had this time to really decide on how to build – how do I do this and just focus on this? Because there were so many roles and opportunities and I know a lot of people obviously, at that point in the industry but they would be like, “Okay, well yeah, you can definitely develop our talent, it will be so great, you’re also handling benefits and payroll.” I’m like, “No thank you.” I knew what my “No”s were and I got much more clear on what my “Yes”s were, where I wanted like 95% of my time to be focused on that. And I did do that exercise that, what you’re talking about and I have my clients do it all the time.
As in, just take a pause. And you hear me talk about the power of the pause all the time, we just don’t do that enough and reflect, you know? I made a list from – I had a 22 year career at the New York Post in different parts of the organization and I worked with all the different departments. And it was fascinating and amazing and exciting and we were always building something new and into the digital space as well. So I got some incredible experience and learned from amazing people.
I had to sit there and write down, what is it that I love the most, what have I had the most joy from. And it just, there was the thread that you talk about, what’s the thread throughout your career? And even though I was doing sales and sales management for all the sports teams in the city. The next in the Yankees and the Mets, they were all my clients and all of Broadway and music concerts and at that point, promoters and all of that in the movie business, it was a blast. But I was also developing my team and they kept taking, I was a little more formal than the wild west style we had.
People on my team kept getting promoted into the retail category in the national category. All of that and I worked closely with the head of sales and developing talent, hiring talent so we were doing that on our own. And we didn’t really have a formal HR department, we had the benefits lady and the benefits team.
Eventually a new CEO and publisher came in here with super formal, pretty Jack Welch-ish and he was like, “Where is HR and finance? Tthey help me run the company. We need consistency, let’s build it.” And he came from a sister company and he put in what she normally did, which I found out was put people from sales or marketing to head up HR so that they could put the business lens on HR.
That was fascinating and I got moved into that and within a couple of months was the VP of HR reporting to the GM and then eventually to him. I learned HR from an amazing employment lawyer who taught me all about employment law and I was surrounded by amazing directors of HR and business partners. We learned to incorporate the business into the decisions we made. I always had a seat at the table and didn’t know how not to. We got to build cool stuff which was amazing and help develop talent along the way.
[0:09:25.9] RS: What does it mean to put the business lens on HR?
[0:09:29.5] AS: That was fascinating for me and I really enjoyed that. So I think where the connection for me was in that, based on me, what I was told was, I had worked across the organization for so long, right? With sales and I’ve worked with finance and production and creative and editorial in different ways from the sales perspectives. And I knew we knew everyone, we also rebuilt the sales organization from zero.
Earlier on in my career, I was one of eight who helped do that so that was exciting, I kind of knew how everything ran and they came in and were looking for that perspective because they wanted to put through a lot of formality. How do you – in some organizations, like where he came from, HR says do this and everyone does that.
We were a little different, we had real strong type-A salespeople, we had super creative editorial people, production teams then we had a mix of business and unions. So there was a lot of different dynamics, marketing and all of that. It was about, “Okay, we should absolutely put in a formal performance management program” however, what it looks like for the business in sales people is very different than what it look like for editorial.
When my chart team went in and explained it, it went from – show the editors what it looked like, they came back almost crying because the editorial was like, “We’re having nothing to do with that” right? Putting the business lens on it, all right, we didn’t think this through enough of “Yes, this is important, this is what the publisher wants everyone to be really thinking about, that’s important to build the organization, consistency, culture, the whole thing. But let’s apply it to what’s super important for your journalist to learn from and develop and help them develop to be their best, and under what perspective.”
We put the business lens on that and went and spoke with all the editors appropriately and created something that worked for them, that would be really beneficial for people to help them learn and grow and continue to get promoted and do great things.
[0:11:40.2] RS: Yeah. That growth apparatus, shall we call it, that lends with the intent of up-leveling folks, presumably into leadership. What is it do you think that most leaders lack? Because every organization has leaders, people are elevated into positions where they have reports and I think sometimes there is a difference between the skills you need to be a good leader and the skills that often get you into leadership positions, right?
Often, it’s like, “You’re such a good individual contributor, you are so good at this task that we now take the task away from you. And now, it’s your job to oversee other people.” But overseeing people is not always what they’re – right, or if you’re still going to test, it’s not easy transition to make. I’m curious, when you kind of think like, painting a broad brush stroke over deficiency in leadership, when you’re coaching folks, what do you find leaders are generally deficient in?
[0:12:40.3] AS: It’s interesting and I like what you said, you know, we’ve talked about this, the marshal gold smith book, what got you here won’t get you there and it’s true. It’s a little bit about what you don’t know, right? Like you said, you move into management and you hadn’t actually had that experience. You are now responsible for people, and you’re now seeing things from the business through a different lens.
Also, you have different responsibilities from your leadership, form your peers and now from your employees, right? Those responsibilities you didn’t have all of that going in and I think the miss for most people and it’s such an easy thing to actually just dial into and that’s what I love about coaching is you actually have it all. You just haven’t had to look through that lens, we haven’t stopped long enough for everything that got you there, you haven’t stopped and paused long enough to then say, “Okay, look internally, what are my strengths, right? What got me here, how is this going to work for me or against me now as a leader” right?
If I was so driven, it was all about me and getting it out there and you know, getting the projects done and all of that. Now, it’s about, how do you take that same energy, that same confidence, that same drive that – and those accomplishments that got you there and turn that lens a little bit with the intention of, “How do I bring that that to my team” right? From I to we, yeah?
It’s really, to me, it’s the internal work, it’s not, “Go, read this book and you’re going to start acting differently now. And do these top three things and you’re going to be the best manager ever.” I’m usually like, “Hey, there’s some incredible book outs there, put them down for a minute, let’s do the internal work first because that is your secret to your career success.”
It’s understanding yourself, regulating yourself and then understanding how that really works with others and understanding how others are different and how to make those connections, right? That all you can control is you. My three big things are gaining clarity on who you really are and how you’re showing up, right? Then, that builds your confidence and it helps build that connection.
In this case, that connection with your new team, with your peers, with your boss in that new role, right? You’re learning how to make small adjustments along the way throughout your career by pausing and like, what do I need now, how is this working for me or what kind of feedback are you getting? We’ve all received feedback, you know?
Speak up more, or if you’re taking up too much air in the room, get more concise, whatever that is. So how do we take that, how is that working for you or against you right now and how do we just make leadership – you know, adjustments to your leadership and create leadership versatility for you so you’re more balanced and learn to grow into some of the strengths or assets you have, you just – I don’t even call them weaknesses, we label everything but there’s just maybe things you never needed before and now you do.
How do we build that muscle, it’s like going to the gym and that’s where a coach comes in.
[0:15:43.8] RS: Yeah. I would agree with that framework, up leveling leaders, there is a challenge though that creating a cohesive team is not an OKR you ever see, right? That’s not like a KPI or it’s not like our leaders really incentivize to make their teams cohesive and healthy? Not really, they’re incentivized to make them effective and effective does not equal, can’t be super healthy always, right? Not in the short-term, anyway.
Is there an issue with incentivizing leaders? How do you make sure that the incentives that you put on people are also aligned with the, becoming better leaders as supposed to leaders with good short-term output?
[0:16:28.6] AS: That’s a good question. Let’s take a look at, you could be a leader and that’s a driver, it’s all about setting expectations first. That’s the part, right? What’s your intention? What I really work on is your energy and how you’re showing up and what are the thoughts behind your actions, right?
Instead of just working on those actions, the output like what you’re talking about driving and getting that output and getting results. I’m getting in deeper with the leaders on, “What are your thoughts and your intentions behind that action and that impact you want to make?” I will tell you that mostly what I find is, employees, they don’t mind. Look, they can be super driven too, right? You want people want to do good work.
People aren’t – don’t want to fail or deliberately, they may trip over themselves a little bit or need to be learn new things but I usually work with a leaders and ask if they’ve actually explained their approach or what they’re looking to accomplish. And some of them haven’t really done that. They’re like, “Well, everybody works like I do, don’t they know you have to just meet this goal?” So that you have this driver that’s just has a huge miss on communication, so what it really, if you really dissect it all, it comes down to communication.
You could communicate that, “Hey, this is who we are” right? This is what’s really important to who we are, this is what people rely on our department for, this is what we do when it comes to regulations and this and that. And so I have a really hard level of like the perfectionist aspect but if they don’t know that intensity because they haven’t shared that with their team, and their expectations on how they operate and what they look for as the level of work and output they are looking for, then it feels wrong to the team, right?
Then there’s disconnect. There’s not – like people are thinking, “Oh, they are too intense” but if you sat down as a leader and said, “Hey, here’s what I’m all about, here’s what I’m looking to do, here’s what we are looking to accomplish, here is how I like to do that” right? “I may be pushing this way, I have high expectations on this because…” and here’s the big picture, right? “Here is what people across the organization expect from us.”
“Here is what our customers are looking at us, to get from us and make sure we’re doing for them” and so they put pride in the work. They show the value that they’re adding. It changes again, the lens, the perspective and then how you’re engaging people to come and follow you as a leader versus driving not explaining, working them like crazy and not giving good feedback, only telling them everything they’re doing that’s wrong and that approach isn’t motivating, right? You are not inspiring people, you are actually doing the opposite.
[0:19:21.1] RS: Yeah.
[0:19:22.0] AS: Makes sense?
[0:19:22.5] RS: Yeah, definitely. That part of it is the lack of training certainly due to explain why a leader may not be so good and as a say, not a weakness so much as a muscle you haven’t trained, right? With the correct attention and desire, you know this gap can be traversed. On the other side of that, do you think there is generally something to what I had said about elevating ICs or the skills of leadership being different from the ability to be elevated into leadership? Do you think that there is a selection error when it comes to hiring managers and bosses?
[0:19:55.9] AS: A selection error? Look, I think across – yeah, it is hard to have a blanket statement like that. I’ve now worked in so many different types of organizations whether I came up through media but our sister companies were a little different in their approach in everything. So some are more formal, some weren’t. I’ve heard in other organizations, “Oh well, they have just been here a long time, it’s time they get promoted.”
Then people are like, “What are they doing as a leader?” I’ve literally, we have a sales development program, so we develop people into manager roles. They knew the whole path, it was awesome, right out of college three to four years, they were into a group sales manager role and I had one of them come to me and was like, “I actually prefer my sales job. Can I go back? Can I be something else?” and wasn’t interested in all of that other stuff.
I loved having that conversation, that was really fascinating to hear their perspective and even though they thought that was the trajectory they wanted, well others couldn’t get to wait there and then were getting poached from us to go lead other places. But back to your question, sorry, I have looked across and seen in different organizations that it’s really different. I have worked with finance, I have worked in major big global transportation, in pharma, banking, in different media, non-profit. People are moved into leadership for just lots of different reasons.
Hopefully from an HR lens and from an executive leadership team role, you are putting people in place that can help make a difference, that can help make an impact but you are also providing them the support they need to grow into those roles. Throughout our career, we are experiencing so many different new situations at a new stage, new people, new personalities and dynamics and that’s where I found –
You know, I work with amazing accomplished successful executives. It’s really just they’re put in new situations and it’s to help them have take a pause and assess what’s going on, reassess what they need and then help work on their leadership versatility, what do they need to amp up and do more of and what do they need to do less of. It’s really about having people make moves for the right purpose.
But look, I was pulled into management into HR and lead from sales. People are like, “What do you do?” I’m like, “H what?” and they’re like, “What are they doing?” And if you listen to the way the CEO explained it and how you’ve done it at other companies, it was pretty interesting but then I was surrounded and given this support and resources, which was amazing to continue to grow in that role and make an impact and I actually love that job and I never would have known that’s what I was doing or would have been doing.
[0:22:44.1] RS: That last bit about helping people reflect to ensure this is what they really want, right? That seems – is that kind of the approach in your current role over at Chief? I really wanted to make sure we get into this current gig you have because it’s important work. I guess first, would you explain a little bit about what Chief is and your role there and then we can kind of earn the insighting and get into what that looks like with regards to what we’ve been talking about at leadership training?
[0:23:09.5] AS: Sure, of course. As many of you may know or been hearing about or seeing all over LinkedIn and in the news recently, Chief is an organization focused on elevating women and more women to the C-suite, and making sure they stay there. And so I was fascinated by the work they were doing and was introduced to them by other executive coaches who work with them as well, and I just started doing work as a – what they call a guide or an executive coach over there and what you get or what I get to do is work with a cohort of women.
About 10 women that stay together over the year and I have a couple of those groups, they’re really a resource for each other and I just help guide their cohort and their group and it’s fascinating to hear they’re from across different industries. Because when you get closer to the top, you kind of lose that place to brainstorm and throw ideas around and share and you know, they have those networks all over for CEOs and different things like that.
I think Chief really filled – and I can see like they filled a void for women, and they’ve put a great program together giving them these resources and opportunities. They bring in amazing speakers so they are learning new perspectives, they are sharing, they’re growing, they’re developing and they are all amazing. I have three groups and they’re incredible women doing great things and just getting the opportunity to be in a safe space and see different challenges people are facing, or get some great ideas or share resources, whatever that is that can help them become amazing.
[0:24:51.7] RS: What are some of the common themes that come up across those groups? Is there a discussion – what are some of the – I am curious, the common challenges that these individuals face?
[0:24:59.9] AS: Well, those are things that are confidential within the group, which is what’s special about Chief but look, I work with a lot of women across organizations as well as men and I have my own women’s group when I started last year, The Core Collective, The Empowered You, where we do a lot of group coaching and all this deep work I talk about. I talk about your energy and my set of intentions because really what it is, is we get our thoughts get in our way a little bit, right?
Our own beliefs, our expectations or maybe our values, there is a value rub or women working in super male-dominated industries and so how is that experience been for them. How do they get so excited get to the C-suite or right there or the boardroom and they’re the only woman in the room, right? How are they treated? What’s different, what isn’t, you know? Some have amazing experiences and amazing support and others could tell you stories that are really interesting like how does that even happen.
I’ve also, outside of Chief worked with a woman vice-president who was in the 360 I did. The CEO was like, “We want to hear more of her. We want more of her voice.” So it is helping people get really clear on again, what’s their voice. Do people understand their point of view? Do they know where you stand on something? Do you stand up and speak up for things that are important or are you just listening, right?
Where do lean in and really make sure you get involved, how are you representing your team, your department?
[0:26:38.2] RS: That is good advice not just for the C-suite, right? I think anyone in their career at any level ought to be running that reflection.
[0:26:45.3] AS: Yeah, absolutely.
[0:26:47.7] RS: Can we get into The Empowered You as well because I think it kind of runs in parallel with Chief, right?
[0:26:52.3] AS: A little bit, Chief is very specific to the C-suite and what they’re doing and what they offer in those. In the core groups there are really for the members, right? For the members to decide what’s their journey and what we’re focusing on and all of that. With The Core Collective, The Empowered You, that I created last year, it’s a six-month program and like I said, it was actually requested by one of my mentees.
She was working in a very male-dominated organization, amazingly brilliant and smart, around 30, in her 30s and moving really quickly but there was this doubt, right? A little bit of, amazing on the outside, really confident, doing amazing work but questions and doubt. And so that’s what we work on is what is your energy, what’s your mindset, are those things true, where do they come from and what’s a new perspective? And really reframing.
So gaining that clarity, building that confidence so they’re connecting and just in a different way and it’s been incredible. The second group I have going on right now with the first group, they came from so many different places and shared so much, connected so quickly. It’s amazing what happens with a bunch of women in a room and when they start sharing and getting vulnerable and realizing that they actually and this happens anywhere.
We can get a bunch of your friends in a room and start talking and you’ll realized you’ve actually has similar either situations, questions, doubts, fears and they start to share and then they help support each other as well. But we do the group coaching very specifically on energy leadership, the seven levels of energy where they show up and starting to recognize it, so it is a great framework to see where you were at your best and then what things – where you trip, right?
Where you trip over your own thoughts or get triggered by outside influences, and we go through all of that, how to work through those values, what are important. Sometimes just differences we have with people in communication or perspective or at the office or in our careers because it is coming from a different value set and that changes the dynamics in communication, so I love doing that work because once people see the difference, I love doing team work as well.
Putting people together and seeing what they are – they may be opposite of something but how their differences are actually their greatest assets. They just don’t realize it because they haven’t look at it through that lens. So we get to share a lot of that in the collective so that’s been exciting and see how they are getting promoted, they are speaking up, they’re not holding back.
But then also dynamics and here’s something that happens a lot too. “Do I go up for promotion or a specific job that I love to create and design?” Things like that came up and we talked about it and they went and they were just appropriately advocating for themselves, you know? Where they may have been holding back a little bit, so I encourage and you know, that is kind of happening now a lot where employees are speaking up more but there is a way to do it.
There is a great conversations to have about what your value, what you can offer or a new job or role you’re interested in rather than waiting, right? How we used to wait and like, “Okay, they will notice I am doing good work. I’ll get promoted” where men maybe making sure you know all about that. Women are like, “No, no I am working hard” so we talk about the speaking up and advocating for yourself.
[0:30:21.9] RS: Super important. Amy, we are creeping up on optimal podcast length here but before I let you go, I wanted to just kind of have you share some final wit and wisdom here to bring us home. Having all these experience with executive coaching, leadership coaching, career and personal development, as well as looking back on your time running a huge HR organization, for the folks out there who want to elevate themselves into leadership or even just, in the way you did, pivot out of it and think critically on how to bring their skills to market to fill themselves, what advice would you give? What kind of self-reflection can they do to set themselves on that path?
[0:30:59.5] AS: Yeah, there is a couple of things there. First, wherever you are in your career right now, just take a moment and pause. Do some reflection and pause and think about a couple of things. If you think you’re in a situation where you are having some, let’s say, communication difference with either people on your team or other leaders or whatever that is, for m, it is the power of the pause and to get really present and be in the moment.
What we want to be careful of is the thoughts in our head, right? We assume because of things that have happened in the past, “Oh my gosh, it’s going to happen again” so we don’t go for that big job or we don’t take that next step or we don’t advocate for our self or we’re so far ahead and we’re so far ahead looking at what’s the next big shiny object that we are missing with all the experience that’s happening right in front of us and I had that.
I had incredible experiences happening right in front of me and I just kind of leaned into them and took all. But I have no idea where they are taking me and now, I have this incredible story and experiences and different people I got that were fascinating to work with and learn from and help develop. And then I made all these connections and it’s kind of taken me where I’ve become, so pause and actually just stay really objective.
Be open-minded, be in the moment, don’t be judgmental, try to be non-judgmental, clear any blocks and stories you have going on in your head. Then I talk about the three O’s, be objective, be an observer and then see the opportunity and so when you are observing your present, you’re aware, you are seeking to understand, you are listening to learn. Again, you are not too far ahead or you are not too stuck in your mind assuming things, right?
Those are blocks and then you’ll see more. You are going to see more because you’re present, right? Power of the pause, I just put that up on LinkedIn, the three O’s, be objective, be an observer and you will see opportunity you weren’t seeing, right? You are going to see possibilities, you will be able to create opportunities because you are just clear, right? I think that’s really important especially before you go in for an interview.
You know, I work with a lot of people whether it’s coming right out of college and trying to understand how their story connects or in high level roles but being in them for so long, all these other experiences, isn’t part of their story. And so we really build that and put that back together, so as we started, think through, what’s my story? What are the cool things I’ve done? What do I really like and enjoy?
That’s your story and that belongs somewhere at the top of your resume. Because if you have a career like I did where it was a lot of different things, I had to explain how I got to HR, I needed to connect those dots for people. A resume with a ton of information on it and it takes me too long to figure out what it is you want, give me a really cool two-line opener. I do a lot of that work with people, like, what’s that story I’m hearing you tell me but it’s not enough understanding it on your resume.
I hope that’s helpful. And leadership, it’s about being open to leadership versatility, balance. You know, balancing, being strategic and operational not just one or the other. Balancing, being assertive and empowering, how do you balance those and that there’s lots of ways to do that but really becoming more in balance.
[0:34:21.2] RS: Yes, that’s all great advice. Amy, this episode has been full of good advice. Thank you so much for being here and for sharing all of your experience. I really loved chatting with you today.
[0:34:30.1] AS: Thank you. It’s been a pleasure.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
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