Jessica is the Head of Talent Acquisition at Atlantic Street Capital Advisors, as well as the host of the Jess Get Hired Podcast. In this episode, she introduces us to her podcast, explaining the topics she covers, and some of the recurring themes and pieces of advice that come up. You’ll hear how Jessica got her current position at Atlantic Street Capital Advisors, the value of networking (and how to do it), and her recommendations on how other recruiters can find their next positions. She also sheds some light on her role at Atlantic Street Capital Advisors, what she is working on, and some of the recruiting processes her team implement in the companies they acquire. For valuable tips on how to build a network, what the must-have tools for any HR tech stack are, and why cover letters are actually a waste of time, make sure not to miss today’s conversation!
[0:00:06.1] RS: Welcome to Talk Talent to Me, a podcast featuring the most elite talent leaders on the front lines of modern recruitment.
[0:00:12.8] FEMALE: We actually want to understand the themes of someone’s life, we want to understand how they make decisions, where are they willing to take risks, and what it looks like when they fail.
[0:00:22.7] RS: No holds barred, completely off-the-cuff interviews with directors of recruitment, VPs of global talent, CHROs, and everyone in between.
[0:00:31.1] FEMALE: Once I went through the classes and the trainings and got the certifications through diversity and inclusion, I still felt like something was missing.
[0:00:39.7] MALE: Talent acquisition, it’s a fantastic career, you are trusted by the organization, you get to work with the C-Suite and the security at the front desk and everybody in between and everybody knows you.
[0:00:53.0] RS: I’m your host, Rob Stevenson and you’re about to hear the best in the biz, Talk Talent to Me.
[0:00:59.3] RS: Talking talent with me today is the head of talent acquisition over at Atlantic Street Capital Advisors, as well as the host of Jess Get Hired Podcast, Jessica Fiesta George. Welcome to the show. How are you today?
[0:01:12.5] JG: I am wonderful, Rob. Thanks so much for having me on. It’s cool to be a guest on another podcast.
[0:01:17.3] RS: Yeah, how’s it feel to be on that side of the equation?
[0:01:21.5] JG: It’s different, definitely different. You would think that as a podcast host and someone who is on the phone all the time, you wouldn’t get nervous but I was kind of a little bit nervous but I know talking to you, it’s going to be really easy and we’re going to have a lot of fun.
[0:01:33.9] RS: Yeah, absolutely, we are. It is strange. I’ve done a couple of podcast as a guest and I’m like, “Oh, they want my opinion now? I’m not just meant to try and ask the good question, I have to actually provide some expertise here.” It’s a weird position to be in, kind of, if you’re not used to it but I know you’re going to be great at this. Obviously, you are a natural on the microphone.
I really like your podcast by the way, and I don’t often recommend other podcasts on the show because, deep down, I am a narcissist but yours is really great. It’s all about just career development, it’s not just about recruitment, although, that does play a part. So I wanted to commend you and we’ll shout out the show, I want people to go check it out but congrats on the podcast.
[0:02:12.9] JG: Thank you so much.
[0:02:13.6] RS: I guess, we’ll get into your role at Atlantic Street Capital Advisors in a minute but first, can we hear about the podcast? What made you want to start it?
[0:02:22.0] JG: So Jess Get Hired, obviously, it’s a play on my name, Jessica and then what do I do? I am a recruiter so, get hired, so I just kind of played around with then name but it actually started out during the pandemic. I was furloughed form my job and then, all of my friends and family and then just people started losing their jobs. Everyone was coming to me about advice and a lot of people didn’t know the difference between furlough and layoff and so I just found myself explaining over and over again and then everyone is like, “Can you take a look at my resume? Can you give me some advice? Like, I just lost my job, I never had to really actively go look for a job before, what do I do?”
So since I was supposed to be in quarantine during that time, remember those good old days? I was like, “Well, how can I do something with my time?” so I started doing YouTube videos and then I started watching a few people that I had followed on YouTube and I was like, “Wow, my production sucks.” I don’t know if I can match up to some of the quality. So I just started making my own little homemade YouTube videos about everything from interviewing and how to create resume and all of that fun stuff.
Well, fast forward, I was fortunate enough to find a job eight months after being furloughed and that was going to take up a lot of my time. So I thought about quitting altogether and then someone asked me if I’ve ever done a podcast or thought about a podcast and I was like, “Well, I mean, I don’t know” and they’re like, “You don’t have to edit, you don’t have to be in front of a camera, you can pretty much do it on your own time.” So low cost of entry, just record and then put it out there, see who listens and I was like, “Well, there’s not very many people on my YouTube channel, so let’s just see what podcasting can do for us.”
So I decided to put it out there and just came at a right time when there was a lot of people that were unemployed at the time and this uncertainty with COVID and what’s next in the workforce. So when I released my podcast, I really didn’t think anyone would listen but then after the first, second and third episode, I think that the third episode’s kind of what catapulted me to where people started to take notice I guess you can say.
So I was like, “I guess I’m just going to roll with it.” I got a lot of messages from people that were thanking me for my advice and to me, if I can just impact one person and make a difference, then to me, it’s worth it. So I just continue to go on and I’ve been fortunate enough to be introduced to some wonderful people, just like you, and then also get asked to be on podcast but I’ve been also, been very fortunate enough to meet CEOs and top leaders in the talent space and inviting them on to my show to give their advice. So I’m 31, 32 episodes in, probably a little bit more by the time our episode here releases but I’m going to continue and just see where it kind of takes me.
I’m kind of doing it as a way to self-brand myself because one day when I want to get out of corporate America, then this will be my brand and hopefully, I can’t take what I’ve learned through podcasting and all the people that I’ve met along the way and turn it into some type of consulting business.
[0:05:40.6] RS: Is that the ultimate goal for you, to leave corporate America and have your own thing?
[0:05:44.7] JG: I think maybe one day, my boss is listening, sorry, but not… I mean, I think one day, we all want to go into business or be our own boss. I do consulting on the side but because I am concentrating on a number of other businesses and I’m getting paid very well by my organization, I feel like I’m still finding my way of what it is I really want to do in my next career. So yeah, one day I think I’d love to it urn it into a full-time business and just kind of see what happens.
[0:06:17.1] RS: I love to hear it and I don’t think it’s controversial to say that in case your boss is listening, just because it’s the reality of work right now. No one is going to retire as the role they are right now. Like, you are not going to retire as head of TA and even if you were promoted to the umpteenth degree, you probably wouldn’t retire an employee of Atlantic Street Capital Advisors, right?
We know that roles are transitory, that we grow and change, we seek new challenges. So I think that’s just a reality of work but I love to hear it, you are of the entrepreneurial spirit and…
[0:06:47.9] JG: Absolutely.
[0:06:48.7] RS: With the podcast you’re making, on this show, we try to be prescriptive for career advice specifically for recruiters, right? But so much of it I think is just evergreen advice, no matter what kind of role you’re seeking and how you are bringing yourself to the interview room and how you are qualifying a new sort of opportunity.
So, I’m curious, what is coming up for you, when you think of the themes that are recurring on the show, the stuff that you are being asked over and over again, that made you want to start producing the content in a way where you could just send a link instead of retyping the same thing over and over again.
What are some of those things? Some of those pieces of advice that are commonly helping folks?
[0:07:26.3] JG: So a lot of the things that my podcast focuses on and a lot of the things that people are asking of me is, “How do I brand myself, how do I show up differently?” LinkedIn has become such a popular tool for job seekers and people of all different industries, no matter – not just job seekers but recruiters, sales people, CEOs even. But you know, “How do I brand myself, how do I show up differently. If I’m in a role, how do I set myself apart from my coworkers to make sure that I’m being considered for a promotion? So how do I level up?” So those are some of the things that a lot of people are coming to me about.
Career planning. What’s new in the talent space? Some of the newest HR, what are the new job boards, what are some of the new trends, what are some of the new applicant tracking systems. So I get like, what’s new, what’s hot, what’s fresh. I want to hear from leaders in different industries, career coaches, what are they experiencing, what are they coaching their people on?
So a lot of the topics lately have been really focused more on personal branding and just kind of leveling up opportunities, coming up because it is going to be Veteran’s Day soon. I’m more focused also on diversity initiatives and veteran hiring so I’ve got a lot of veteran guests on there, talking about different perspectives because I think that’s also a talent pool if you will, that kind of gets neglected and overseen.
So really educating companies on how to read a resume from someone that’s transitioning out of the military but also, helping those who are in the military, how do you write your resume to cater to what corporate America is looking for, so that’s a lot of what’s coming up on my show.
[0:09:12.7] RS: Yeah, you’re all across the board there, which I love whether it’s career advice or just you know, you do coach a little bit in the HR tech and what’s new in developing. For recruiters specifically, how do you recommend these folks go out there to find their next role? Are you sending people to job boards, are you working your network?
I want people to be really prescriptive and specific about the way they find their next job because I fear that so many people land in it kind of accidentally but based on like, “Oh well, this job came up in my search, right? So I write the right keywords into the job board and I found it” right? Or “This person slid into my LinkedIn DMs” which can be great.
You can definitely find an awesome job that way and most people do but how would you suggest people be as deliberate and specific about their approach to yield the thing that they really need?
[0:09:58.4] JG: Well, interesting you said, “People sliding into your DMs on LinkedIn.” That’s kind of how I found in my last three jobs and really, a lot of the people that I’ve subsequently hired on at different companies that I’ve been attached to has come through my network or my network of people who keep referring other people and deliberately targeting who you’re networking to.
So there’s this trend going around on LinkedIn called social Saturday and at first I was like, all about it but social Saturday if you’re not familiar, it happens every Saturday. It’s encouraging you to just network and follow and connect with hundreds of people. But I warn people on that because are you really connecting with people who are bringing value into your network? Are you just chasing a numbers game because you want more followers, you want more connections to be more popular because that’s the game on social media?
Like, how many followers can I get? But what I’m also finding are although I jumped on that bandwagon a couple of Saturdays, it helped some of my followers. I’m not getting enough engaged followers on my network and to me, I’d rather have a smaller network of people who are actually engaged and what to connect and share ideas and talk about what’s going on versus just people who are following, right?
So if you’re out there trying to search for your next opportunity, I would say look at the jobs that are posted, see who the job poster is, usually they’ll have like their photo on there or if it’s an organization that you want to be involved in, find out who of the leaders are in that company and see if you can message them on LinkedIn.
How I got my job, I was in sales and I sucked at sales. So I lost my job as a sales person, I was in business development but through that, I was able to network with a lot of heads of HR, lots of CEOs, heads of procurement and when I lost my job, instead of me going out and spamming everyone in their inbox about, “Here, buy this” or “Here’s the latest trends, talk to me” I was like, I’m actually trying to sell myself, “Here I am, I’m on the job market.” “You know me from being in your inbox all the time but I’m coming to you at a different angle” and I kind of put more of a personal spin to it and it caught the attention of a couple of people, was able to get some interviews from that.
So the boss that I have now was actually, the head of talent at a Wireless Place, Wireless Company and you can find on LinkedIn who I worked for but he was interim chief of HR and it was owned by a private equity firm, Atlantic Street Capital and they sold it to another private equity firm. I stayed on, he went somewhere else. So I worked there for a little bit and then, he just knows what I’m capable of doing and they said, “Hey, we actually acquired another large retailer, we’d love for you to come work for us over there.” So I kind of followed him over there, pandemic, fast forward, and then have the opportunity to come back but on the advisory side of the house. So now, that’s what I do, is I consult all of the private equity portfolio for Atlantic Street Capital as the advisory firm.
But that opportunity came from me just pushing forward and being strategic about who I connected with on LinkedIn and that’s kind of how I find people for the roles that I’m trying to fill. I always network. People that either worked for me know somebody else or I get introduced to people that know someone that know someone else and from that, I just developed relationships with them, get to know them a little bit outside of the whole messaging on LinkedIn and then, really finding out what they’re all about. Keeping them in my network and if I don’t have something, I’m always thinking of them, so they’re top of mind and I refer then to other opportunities. So I think just being strategic and networking with a purpose I think is really important.
[0:13:54.8] RS: Yeah. Definitely and being specific and limiting the scope of your networking too to a more finite number I think is really important. The conventional I think, un-examined wisdom is like, just get as many people tuned into you as possible, build an audience and then you can figure out how to monetize them or extract value from them later and for some things hat works but for your own career, I don’t believe it’s that smart.
You cannot deliver meaningful personalized value at the one-to-10,000-person scale, right. You’re just one human being and also, all of the business opportunities I’ve had that have come from networking have bene through people who I’ve worked with or have like personal relationships with, people who I’ve delivered value to, I don’t know like, how much value you can really deliver over time just with a LinkedIn post. Like, you can get someone in the funnel, you can get them interested but at a certain point, you really have to show them something of meaningful value.
So this personal branding thing, we’re supposed to do it but I really want people to ask themselves why, why they’re doing it, right? If you’re networking in the interested getting a job, then, maybe just being the lion, right? The LinkedIn open network where you’re just like, following everyone, everyone’s following you and you have a hundred thousand people viewing your profile but then you post something and you get 17 likes, like, what was it all for, you know?
[0:15:18.2] JG: Exactly.
[0:15:19.0] RS: So I do think you need to be delivering value to people, right? On a one-to-one level before you can expect to have that relationship bear fruit for you, specifically on like a career change, where it’s sort of big decision.
[0:15:32.2] JG: Absolutely.
[0:15:32.5] RS: So what’s going on over there at Atlantic Street Capital Advisors? Can you tell me a little bit about your role and what you’re working on?
[0:15:38.6] JG: Yeah. So Atlantic Street Capital Advisors, we all have our specific skillsets. So I have counterparts on the marketing side, on the accounting side, you know, I have an HR counterpart as well. We basically as Atlantic Street Capital acquires companies, we are kind of the extension, if you will, of that brand that we have acquired.
So we’ve kind of become, if you are familiar with recruitment process outsourcing or RPO on the recruiting side, my team actually becomes like the RPO for an organization. So Atlantic Street Capital companies are founder-led organizations. They are usually mid-sized organizations that have maybe a 100 or more employees.
So they don’t really have a talent acquisition department, they don’t have actual recruiters, they may have an HR person that has been doing everything from HR payroll and everything else but we know that’s not effective, right? Not all HR people are good recruiters and not all recruiters can do HR, that’s just fact.
So we go in, we kind of take a look at how they’ve been doing business and our goal was to make sure that we help scale the organization. Because ultimately as a private equity, we’re going to sell the firm or sell the company in X amount of years. So we want to make sure that we are creating policies, process, introducing technology that is going to make sure that it is streamlined, everything is packaged up perfectly, so five, six, seven years down the road when we’ve been able to scale that hundred-person company by acquiring other companies and adding in more layers to maybe like a 500-person organization that they have the right recruiting process, they have the right job descriptions, they have the right salaries, everything on HR, they’ve got employee relations, training, benefits are all aligned.
So that is kind of what our team does is just basically goes into each company, kind of becomes that fractional HR if you will, where we become the extension of that brand. So we come to help with hard to fill positions, we have an executive search team that helps our companies whenever we need to make leadership changes from the VP level and above and then my group helps take a look at high volume hiring or hard to fill positions from the hourly position up to the director level.
[0:18:10.2] RS: Got you. Now, what are some of those early recruiting processes that you want those teams to put into place?
[0:18:18.4] JG: So a lot of it has to do with do we have even social media. A lot of people are post and pray, they post it on job boards, that’s all they know how to recruit is like, “I posted a job on this job board, I get candidates and I’m fine with that” but we all know that throwing something out there doesn’t necessarily give you the best return on your investment or sometimes the best quality of candidate.
So typically, I will look at how our job description is written, are they written in a voice that will speak to the candidates that we’re trying to recruit for. I look at their strategy, are we only posting on certain places? Are there other places we should be posting at? What kind of tools do you have or do you even have applicant tracking system? Lots of companies don’t, they’re still spreadsheets or just taking email resumes. We just converted one who was paper only to digital. So I mean, surprising to say that in the year 2022 that there’s companies that are still not automated.
But we kind of take a look at the whole start to finish process of talent acquisition from phone screen questions, how are they onboarding and then what are they doing for retention and training. So we kind of dissect every little piece of the puzzle just to kind of see where we can help and add value. A lot of it just has to start with the very basics, from job descriptions to where you’re posting, the types of screening questions, the interview questions, the technology that they have in place and just kind of going from there.
[0:19:54.0] RS: So it’s kind of cradle to grave, like that’s the whole –
[0:19:56.4] JG: Oh yeah.
[0:19:57.4] RS: That’s the whole process like from, “Hey, where is the inbound coming?” to retention, right? That’s the entire lifecycle right there. Do people ever get overwhelmed? Are they ever like, “Okay, that all sounds awesome but where do I start?”
[0:20:08.3] JG: Yeah, of course everyone at first is like, “Oh, craving for all of this attention that they’re getting” because if they were to outsource and get consultants to do this on the outside, we kind of come packaged as part of the acquisition. We’re a part of what you get when you partner with our PE firm. Yeah, everyone loves to do it but also they’re resistant to change and then they get kind of shocked when you start introducing technology, right?
So making technology investments is a huge thing because in their mind, yes they know they need to change but when you show them what the dollar amount is, you have to really dig in and show them the ROI and how it’s worked in the past and the success metrics and how it’s going to be used. So they get a little bit of sticker shock when you start introducing things but everyone is always craving ways because they know we’re here to help.
We’re their partners, we’re not coming in to try to take over the organization. We’re here to really help them succeed because ultimately, that’s our goal is to make sure we help them grow.
[0:21:08.8] RS: Now, is the sticker shock for early tech you want them to invest in, for hires on the recruiting team or where do people start to get their eyebrows raising?
[0:21:17.6] JG: It is mostly technology, depending on the size of organization. You know, if doesn’t make sense to have a recruiter per se for that organization that’s where my team will just kind of step in but when it comes time to wean ourselves off, so they can be more self-sufficient because we’re not going to be there forever. So of course, our goal is to try to set them up for success and then hopefully they can do it themselves.
So it is a little bit on both sides, it is introducing them to the technology investment but also introducing possible headcount and adding more payroll dollars to the bottom line but in time, it takes time and it is a process. I’ve been helping a few companies that’s been a little over a year now and we’re just now getting to the point where they are able to add a new recruiter or an HR person or something like that but overall, people are pretty open.
[0:22:12.8] RS: Yeah, is the early tech in ATS or what are you pointing towards?
[0:22:16.5] JG: Yes, ATS for sure especially the ones that are growing. They have significant number of openings, they are not capturing candidate information the right way with compliance. We want to make sure we have that. We want to be able to have reporting and being able to show the ROI when they post on a job board or wherever the people are coming in from or what is our diversity spread, where are people coming from, what’s the demographics of the candidates.
So a lot of those types of things that people like, like the CEO’s love data, right? So the more that we can show that by turning over to an applicant tracking system or an HRAS system, they have more capabilities to have these reporting and have more meaningful conversations when it comes down to wanting more headcount or asking for more budget or why sales might be low, we might need to add in certain places and making sure all of the employees are compensated properly so we also help with comp benchmarking and salary analysis and stuff like that.
[0:23:25.8] RS: So the ATS is kind of an assumed investment, not kind of, it is. You don’t have a recruiting team without an ATS, right? You got to have this installed, so that is just decided HR tech stack, right? You have it if you are a recruiter at a company who is going to get serious on hiring. What do you think is the next decided assumed piece of HR tech stack like the must have? Because there’s so many tools out there.
There is tools to engage with candidates, there is tools to help you with your referrals, there is tools to help you with your employee culture and engagement and all of these different ways you can spend your HR budget, right? What do you think is the next necessary thing after an ATS?
[0:24:03.9] JG: You know, if I knew that answer, I would probably come up with it and we can make millions.
[0:24:08.5] RS: Yeah, exactly. We’ll stop this podcasting thing.
[0:24:11.5] JG: Right? I don’t know. I mean, I keep getting introduced to things that I didn’t even think about but definitely Applicant Tracking System is a must. Everyone is more mobile now and I feel like if there is a better way to reach candidates without having to upload resumes or link profiles and then taking you through the whole applicant tracking system and make it more automated, I think that would be the best.
One of the things that we did at a former company of mine, we just did this like text to apply type of campaign where it was just a simple gathered some information and by the time you were done texting back and forth with the bot, it already filled out your application and could pull all of your information from like LinkedIn for you and you wouldn’t have to be redirected anywhere. So I think something that will help make hiring faster and make it easier and make a good candidate experience.
I don’t know if that exists and if it does, find me because I’d love to hear about it but I have my ideas, I just wish I had a tech background because I think I could probably build one that works for what I know most recruiters and hiring managers are looking for but yeah, there is just so much out there. I couldn’t narrow it down to just like something.
[0:25:29.8] RS: Yeah, I think the text to apply and the general like texting with a candidate, automated text reminders that go out to the candidate to say, “Hey, tomorrow you are meeting with Jessica. Here is her LinkedIn profile, you are meeting her at this time on this Zoom link” and just reminding folks, keeping yourself as a company top of mind, giving your candidate the information that they can use to be a better interviewer to like put their best foot forward.
Right now, that happens in thoughtful organizations by virtue of recruiters manually typing it out, right? Being like, “Hey, just want to remind you this is happening tomorrow, you are meeting with so and so.” I have, in the days when I would interview, I would message recruiters like, “Hey, I just wanted to ask who am I meeting with tomorrow? What are their names, what are their titles?” and every time I did that, the recruiter was thrilled.
They were so pleased that I was like I cared enough to figure out who it is because they’re assuming I am going to be doing research on these people but guess what? They have to manually respond to that email and copy paste LinkedIn URL, right? Which they did because they’re good at their job but wouldn’t it be better if it was completely automated? Yes, so in the same way, texting to apply, we should get rid of cover letters, right? Is there any recruiting utility to the cover letter?
[0:26:40.8] JG: Okay, I know a lot of career coaches will probably send me hate mail for this, I hate cover letters. I think it’s a waste of time. One, as someone who looks at hundreds of resumes a week, the last thing I want to do is read through the fluff of a cover letter. I’d rather get to the nuts and bolts of your resume and just see the key things that I need to see and if I have questions, I’m going to call you and you can tell me what you would have typed in a cover letter.
But yeah, to me cover letters maybe for certain like C-level positions it’s appropriate but I have been dealing with a couple of companies where I’ve been able to convince them that we don’t need cover letters because do you have time to read it? No, do I have time to read it? Absolutely not, so it is just a waste of time and yeah, I agree with you, cover letters are thumbs down for me.
[0:27:33.3] RS: Two thumbs down, giant thumbs down. I mean, usually what a cover letter is asking is something like, “Why do you want to work here at the company?” and here’s the truth, I don’t know if I want to work here at the company. I am applying this out because I maybe want to work at this company. So it is a little presumptuous at the base of it and even if I really did like how much could I possibly know?
I am going off of a consumer brand probably of what I know about this company from the outside. So yeah, clearly recruiters hate reading them, candidates hate writing them, what are we doing here? Here’s the problem though, say you’re a candidate and you are applying for a job and it wants you to upload a cover letter, you may be in a situation where it’s like, “Oh, you cannot click the submit button.”
It’s like, “Oh this is a mandatory field” right? Or you have to upload something, what would you do as a candidate if you’re like, “Okay, cover letters are stupid but this company is making me do it.”
[0:28:22.3] JG: So I actually have done this before and I am a very creative person. So my cover letter because I did not really want to type and the rule of thumb, you should customize each cover letter to the job that you are applying for. I didn’t have time to do that, so I had a generic letter that I wrote and I wish I could find it for you right now but basically it was, “There is a lot of things that I could put in this cover letter but I would prefer a phone call to be able to tell you myself. Here is my contact information.”
It is something like that and it was just something that I could upload. I maybe got one recruiter who was like, “I loved your cover letter” but all the other interviews that I’ve had, no one ever mentioned anything because they didn’t even see it or they would have said something to me about it.
[0:29:08.2] RS: That’s so funny, yeah.
[0:29:09.7] JG: You know what I mean?
[0:29:10.8] RS: That is like the thing to do, like just upload a Word document that’s all wing dings and see if they ever say anything.
[0:29:16.4] JG: Yeah and just see if anyone says anything.
[0:29:18.2] RS: Or just like yeah, you know they’re probably not going to be like match the respect you’re given and upload a crossword puzzle that if filled out, gives them what is on your resume, you know?
[0:29:28.0] JG: Right, put a wordle on there or something that will make them play.
[0:29:32.8] RS: That would be funny. Yeah, I mean, I would have no problem doing that but I do worry if you’re like 21, 22 and you’re like, “I want my first job” and you’re supplying in mass to rolls, you’re probably not being picky and you’re like, “Oh, well I have to write it. I have to complete the application, they are asking for it” so I don’t know. I guess I wouldn’t fault anyone if you’re 22 and you are listening to this, one, I’m shocked but two, I mean, just don’t do it.
Don’t waste your time on a cover letter or write a generic one that works for everyone and there’s too many companies who like you just get thoughtful about what a cover letter really means and then decide that it is useless and that’s the kind of company you want to work for because you share that value. If you are annoyed writing a cover letter then go work for a company who is also annoyed about having to write cover letters, I guess is what I am saying.
[0:30:20.5] JG: Yeah, so I am not against it but I have to say as a recruiter and those who are recruiters for organizations can probably chime in and say the same thing. It’s to me a waste of time but by all means, if it makes you feel better, go ahead and write one.
[0:30:37.9] RS: Yeah, you may have no choice unfortunately. Well Jessica, we are creeping up on optimal podcast length here and this is my favorite kind of episode where we sort of abandoned all of the notes that I had taken previously and sort of talked about whatever. So thank you so much for being here and for being yourself. I will make sure to include links to your show in the show notes and I hope everyone goes and checks it out. So Jess, this has been great. Thank you for being here.
[0:31:02.0] JG: Absolutely. Thanks Rob, I appreciate it.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
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