Lime’s Recruiting Operations Manager joins to discuss how he works to identify funnel inefficiencies and make recruiter’s lives easier.
00:00 Rob: Hello, podcast land. Welcome back to another classic installment of your favorite recruiting podcast. I am, again, Rob Stevenson here at the helm, and I am positively thrilled you’re joining us once more. This week, I have, you guessed it, sweet, sweet audio-based conversational recruiting content lined up for you. I’m very excited to get to it. My guest this week is Max Butler, who is the Recruiting Operations Manager over at Lime.
00:30 Rob: And Lime, and some other companies of that ilk, popped up overnight last year, and they’ve just exploded and had this crazy hyper-growth. I’ll let Max explain what it is exactly that they do. But as far as recruiting is concerned, they have 500-odd hires to make. Max himself is focused on their pipeline, and their funnel, and figuring out ways to optimize it. And he has a lot of really interesting takes on what are the projects he wants to work on, and how he can make recruiter’s lives easier, and why you should think about hiring a recruiting operations person sooner rather than later. But I’ll let him explain because he’ll do a better job of talking about it than I can. So without further chicanery or jiggery pokery, I give you Max Butler, Recruiting Operations Manager at Lime.
01:28 Rob: Max Butler, recruiting operations manager for Lime is here. Max, how are we?
01:32 Max: Doing great, thank you for having me.
01:33 Rob: Yeah, thrilled you’re here. How is everything going over there?
01:35 Max: It’s going great, yeah, we’re coming down off a big, big year of 2018, and so trying to get our heads together and take a breath before we go into 2019, which is well here, so… But it’s going really well.
01:48 Rob: Yeah, definitely. And you guys came out of nowhere. I remember Lime just appeared overnight.
01:55 Max: Yeah, all these dockless bike shares, scooters, whatever it is, is here, and just in the last couple of years has blown up and taken over so many different cities, so it’s exciting and it’s awesome to be a part of this ride. But yeah, we’re here and we’re here to stay.
02:12 Rob: Yes, it definitely feels that way. For the folks at home/on their commute/at the gym or wherever it is they’re listening to this, can you give us a quick high-level overview of what Lime does?
02:24 Max: Yeah, Lime hit the scene, our CEOs and co-founders saw that there was a need for bike-less bike share. And so it started as Lime Bike, and we wanted to launch bikes in different cities, different regions to help really with that last-minute, last-mile transportation service. And so really just 2016-17 came out, took over, did very well. And then the scooter craze came up and adjusted to scooters. Started launching scooters and bikes in different regions. And so when you get off that bus and you still have that 1.5-mile walk to the office that some days is just a little too far, or if you’re at one bar and you wanna go to another [chuckle] and that walk is just not doable, and it could call it… You’ve got the option to jump on a bike, or jump on a scooter and get you to where you need to go. And so we’ve, yeah, have grown to several markets around the world now, and the company itself has grown significantly. So that’s where we’re at, and it’s just been a couple years, and last year was our biggest year of growth, and 2019 is gonna be another big year of growth, both from personnel or people side, as well as market side. So that’s where we’re at today.
03:37 Rob: Let’s talk about the people and personnel side, shall we?
03:40 Max: Yeah.
03:40 Rob: How many folks are you gonna add this year?
03:42 Max: Yeah, well, we’re finalizing that right now in 2019 planning, but it’s gonna look pretty similar to what we did last year, which was just about 500.
03:50 Rob: Woah.
03:51 Max: Yeah, 500, just north of 500 in 365 days, you can imagine it is a lot of work and pretty wild, but amazing growth that I’ve never seen anywhere else. And so looking at the rough draft of what we wanna do in 2019, we’re probably gonna replicate it, do something very similar.
04:08 Rob: Amazing. What do you think is gonna make up most of those roles?
04:11 Max: Operations. What we do, and a lot of that’s gonna be on the operations front, our operations managers as we launch new cities, new regions. Also our engineering team, our tech side of the house is gonna grow significantly this year. And then corporate as a whole is where we’re gonna see most of the growth. Yeah, but pretty much across the board we’re seeing big spikes.
04:37 Rob: So I guess we should point out that those 500-odd people, those are in HQ as opposed to the armies of folks that Lime would have to hire to corral the fleet of scooters and bikes at the end of the day, right?
04:49 Max: Right, that’s a totally different ball game. That was one of the challenges I had walking in, or it’s something that I actually myself had to get my head around, was understanding that there’s the operations specialists, there’s the OS, there’s the mechanics, there’s the juicers, so that side of the business. And then there’s corporate, and there’s operations, there’s… You have to really break the business apart. But what I’m referring to is 300, 400, or 500 hires they make this year, that’s gonna be strictly on Lime and as corporate, and the people are gonna be here. And then we have a whole ‘nother function where we look at the operations and the mechanics and so forth.
05:24 Rob: Right, right. Are juicers the people you source to charge the scooters at the end of every day?
05:29 Max: Yeah, it’s amazing, it’s like driving for Uber or for Lyft, it’s a secondary income, and it’s able to go around and charge our scooters, outsource the charging to keep the scooters rolling, and collect that data. So yeah, the juicers, the term they’ve given them, yeah, a lot of people have made amazing careers and side gigs off of charging scooters.
05:51 Rob: It’s a great side hustle, and it’s even better branding, which is why I bothered to mention it. [chuckle]
05:55 Max: Yeah.
05:55 Rob: But so you on the recruiting operations side, what is your role in all this?
06:00 Max: Yeah, so I was brought in to oversee how the recruiting team was functioning. And we wanted to make sure our recruiters are doing what they do best, which is recruiting, the day-to-day recruitment, and make sure they’re bringing in the best top talent, and getting them through, and closing them, and getting off route, and getting that offer signed. And looking at the overall interview process, and how do we make this team a little bit more efficient, and how can they operate more effectively? That was what I wanted to look at. And so there was a pretty flat, large organization, and we had about over 20 on the recruiting team. And so I wanted to help improve the process, I wanted to look at the data, I wanted to evaluate the tools and systems that we’re using today and just make the most out of it, and allowed them to continue to do their job and do their job well.
06:50 Rob: Definitely. What are some of the levers you look at to make sure that your team is set up to do their best work?
06:57 Max: Yeah, I think it depends on the company size, and where they’re at, and what’s most important to them. And when I walked into Lime, it was very evident that there was a lack of data there, and I think it comes with data integrity in the ATS. We use Lever, and so our teams across the world were using it a little bit differently, and that was fine ’cause their job is to hire, and they wanted to move fast. And we wanted to be able to slow down and say, “What is our time to fill, what is our time to hire, how many jobs are open, how much time is spent on interviewing?” And we really weren’t able to give an accurate answer. And so my focus from day one was let’s clean this up, let’s have a process, let’s highlight the core metrics that we’re gonna follow, and let’s find a way to start to report on these. And so if you’re… I’ve been in other organizations where that is not their problem, they wanna focus on how do they have a good process. And the two or three recruiters they may have are keeping the ATS very clean, but how do they maximize…
07:58 Rob: Must be nice.
08:00 Max: Yeah, yeah, it’s very rare, but in the world of startups, they have different recruiters that can sit there and spend all the time, and clean it up, and make sure that their archiving or rejecting their candidates and so forth. And so there’s different challenges every organization faces. And so if it’s… I wanna look at the tools and systems we’re using, we’re not scheduling people on time, or this and that. But for Lime specifically, I wanted to focus on data integrity, lever, hygiene, whatever you wanna call it, and make sure that we had some of the core metrics that the executives wanna see, the leaders wanna see, and the recruiting team wants to see.
08:31 Rob: Yeah, and you need a recruiting operations person to tackle that because it’s the kind of campaign, for lack of a better word, that if you don’t have someone doing that… Say you have a couple of recruiters, director, sourcer, recruiting coordinator, they’ll all look at their ATS and be like, “This is a mess, this could be a lot better.” But it’s also… It’s no one’s job to fix it, it’s everyone’s job and no one’s job, which means no one’s gonna ever do it.
08:56 Max: Yeah, and so it’s never anyone’s problem until the question comes. You have a co-founder, you have an executive, you have a leader or hiring manager that asked the question, “How many interviews have we had, what’s the on site to offer ratio?” And your right, sourcers and recruiters are focused on getting people in the door, they’re focused on having a great candidate experience, and their focus is elsewhere to where they get the question, they say, “I don’t know.”
09:19 Rob: “I don’t know,” yeah. “Never thought about it.”
09:19 Max: “Let me do some digging, let me ask around.” And so that’s why I think it’s crucial to have a recruiting operations manager in place day one, so we can look at that and we don’t have to waste time and continue to have offer decline, offer decline, offer decline, when we can make some adjustments on our end to make sure we have a better experience and get people hired. And evaluating those time to hires, this time to fills and so forth, that’s what recruiting operations does, because that’s our job, full-time, all the time. And if you go up to… You say, oh well, the director or the head of talent should do that… Especially with a company that’s growing 100… 10x, 5x, 2x, 3x, they’re involved in other meetings. They’re involved in other conversations. They’re managing a growing team, they don’t really have time to dive in and use that. And so having someone right there in the middle, the bridge, is crucial. So yeah, the goal is have a recruiting team operate and do what they do best, which is recruit.
10:14 Rob: And you’d argue that hire should be made early, right?
10:17 Max: Early. If I were to go join a company that I think is gonna scale and do great, one of the first recruiting hires I would make is recruiting operations, absolutely.
10:27 Rob: Yeah, and there’s definitely some debate on that point. A lot of people will say recruiting coordinator is the first hire you have to make ’cause usually it looks like you bring someone in at the director level, someone who’s comfortable being an individual contributor as well as running the team, a player-coach kind of situation, and then they’ll be like, “Yeah, bring in a recruiting coordinator ’cause you can’t afford to be spending all that time scheduling meetings and babysitting people on-site.” But what that results in is people not looking at all the different interview stages you have in your ATS, and then you just build a technical debt, right?
11:02 Max: Yep. And I get it, I agree, I understand that thought process, but oftentimes that that’s where most every company starts: Let’s get a generalist, let’s get that head of talent that can basically do everything, and give ’em the title, attract someone over here, do it all. But then you fast forward six, 12 months, 18 months, and then there’s a problem, and then oftentimes the solution is throw money at it. “Well, we’re not getting the right talent. Well, let’s invest in LinkedIn and in Glassdoor, or pay for these agencies.” And so you start throwing money at a problem, and you’re still, a couple months later, still faced with the same problem. So if you’re able to get in there now, and you have someone that has been in recruiting operations that can really pull the different levers and maximize what needs to be done, then that’s a better approach than shooting yourself in the foot down the road.
11:53 Rob: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. What have been some of the areas you’ve looked at Lime or in previous roles where the knobs you’ve turned to be like this is… Here’s a bottleneck, or here’s an efficiency, here’s what I can hone in on to make life easier for my recruiters?
12:10 Max: Yeah, I think that it is actually one of my favorite reports or something I look at, that most ATS have, is the conversion or the pass-through rates, and looking at that funnel. That’s very telling as to what’s working, what’s not working. And I usually start there because if you’re seeing… Adjust the day filters and see how many people are getting declined, or are rejected, or dropping off at the on-site interview stage, well, that’s where you’re gonna focus and dive in. And how are you conducting on-site interviews? Maybe it’s at the recruiter phone screen. If you have 30% of the people not passing recruiter phone screen, why is that? Are they rejecting us, or are we rejecting them. Why? Should we re-evaluate our recruiter phone screen score cards or agendas, or how we’re conducting those?
12:54 Max: And so I start with the funnel; I think every company has a different barrier or different issue with their conversion at those different stages. So that’s usually where I start. And then from there, if it is a drop-off between phone interview to on-site interview, why? Look in there, people are rejecting us due to timing. Well, how many RCs do we have? Okay, if they’re not cutting it, if they need a tool to help them, such as all the different scheduling tools that exist there today, well, then we should invest in one of those tools because if the RCs are stretched thin we hire another RC, we break the team up. But that’s where you wanna start because if you’re having 20% of your candidates go from phone interview to on-site interview, that’s a big problem. And so that’s where you’re gonna start to focus. And so a big part of my job is evaluating the different tools and systems that we have.
13:42 Max: And so when I look at Lime and what we’re doing, we have a lot of things in place today; we have a great team. But where we need to shift and adjust those levers, it’s hard to tell until the data’s there. And so making sure that the team is using the ATS and sticking with the same process that we have over the next couple of weeks and the couple of months is gonna really tell us where we need to spend our time and our focus and our money.
14:04 Rob: How does this work… So you are hammering on all these different tools and looking at them every day, so you get a sense of when something is off-kilter. Do you just regularly present to the talent team, take them in room and be like, “Hey, our drop-off rate in this portion of the funnel is way off what it normally is, or it’s just plain bad. Let’s drill in there,” and then as a discussion, I’m like, “Alright, why is it that there’s just much drop-off,” or “How does this play out in a real-world setting?
14:33 Max: Yeah, so I come from the recruiting background. I’ve been a technical recruiter my whole entire career. And so a lot of that you can tell, and quickly the data will tell you the story and then what’s going on. And then for me also, spending time with the recruiters, shadowing them, understanding what’s going on. And so I think that’s where it really starts, is understanding the problems, the issues and struggles that they may or may not be having, and spending time with them, and spending time in their meetings, and the meetings of the hiring managers. And so yeah, for me it’s normal, it’s natural for me to understand what the recruiters may be challenged with, and what’s going on, and what we can adjust to help them do their job better.
15:13 Rob: Got it. So you’ve been a recruiter your whole career, you speak their language a little bit. It seems that once you were to present this report saying, “Hey, this part of the funnel is way off,” there’s still the, okay, why? So what? We figured out that we’re… That this number is bad, or we figured out that there’s a significant drop-off here… In the example you gave, between phone screen and on-site, how do you go from that to the conversation where it’s like, “Well, what is it?” How do you identify what the actual problem is?
15:45 Max: Yeah, you’re right. I do speak their language, and I come from a technical recruiting background, that’s what I’ve done my whole entire career until I started to just slowly transition to recruiting operations, but that’s the experience I had from getting questions and frustrations from co-founders, and from executives, and trying to really identify what was broken, what was wrong in the recruiting process. And that is where oftentimes recruiters say, “I can either continue to do what I’m doing and we’re gonna get the same results,” or “Let’s take a step back, re-evaluate this,” and instead of them spending that time going back and doing that, you have a recruiting operations manager saying that you’re having 20%, 50% of your candidates declining our offer due to compensation. Well, that’s where I’m gonna come in and talk to our finance team, and that’s where we’re gonna talk to some of the HR VPs and some of the leaders and see what we’re doing with our leveling. Are we gonna make an adjustment there? And so that’s a big part of my role is make sure that those conversations are happening, because we all know recruiters don’t have the time to do that. And so identifying those reasons, making sure that the team is doing things accurately so we have those reasons, and taking it to the table saying a change has to happen here.
16:51 Rob: So is the answer abundantly clear to the recruiting people? When you tell them, “Hey, there’s a huge drop-off between phone screen and on-site,” are they like, “Yeah, I bet there is, and it’s because this,” or is there… How does that conversation go?
17:06 Max: Yeah, sometimes I’ve had both answers, and I’ve learned over my career that there are recruiters that are data-driven, and they just fall in love with that, and they wanna track every metric that they can. And that’s happened to me from day one that some recruiters have that thought process, they wanna understand what’s happening with their whole life cycle and with their process. And then you have other recruiters that are taking it one candidate, one phone call at a time, and they do say, “Oh wow, how did you find that, how did you know that?”
17:38 Rob: Right, right, we had no idea, yeah.
17:39 Max: Yeah and so, yeah, it’s just making sure that the team as a whole are well-calibrated and understand what the overall funnel looks like, and what some of those core metrics look like, and what we’re doing well, and where we need to improve. And so that’s… The job is to make sure that we’re fully transparent and all the recruiters are on the same page.
18:01 Rob: Right, right, definitely. So Lime… I’m sorry for skipping around here, I’m a terrible interviewer, but this is [chuckle] what’s coming to mind. You have this… Essentially a hyper-growth, you’re gonna add 500 people. I’m curious if you have thoughts about… Is there a difference between the recruitment team it takes to add those 500 people and the one it takes to maintain them? Maybe my conception of your growth is wrong, ’cause it seems like hyper-growth means that you’re gonna explode with growth for a period of time, and then you reach a point where it’s like, okay, now we kind of level off a little bit and we’re still gonna be growing, but we won’t be 500 people. Or is it gonna be 500 every year till kingdom come?
18:45 Max: Yeah. What is hyper-growth? That’s one of those words that I never know.
18:50 Rob: I’m sure there’s lots of shitty LinkedIn posts about it. [chuckle]
18:53 Max: Yeah hyper-growth. And I guess if there’s any company to define as hyper-growth, Lime is right there.
19:00 Rob: Right.
19:00 Max: With the growth that they’ve experienced the last couple of years. But yeah, so to answer your question, we looked at load balancing, it was one of the first things that I wanted to do and work with our head of talent is understand do we have the team in place to do this again? And then you wanna look at how many reqs each recruiter is hiring for, and how many have they hired, and so you wanna do a little bit of load balancing that you can pull out of the ATS. And then from there, is it gonna taper off? Are we gonna expect the same thing year over year? Is it gonna go up? Is it gonna double? I don’t know, it’s a little early to tell. But for us, we wanna look at it a quarter at a time, a year at a time, and understand do we have the right team to meet the company’s needs, and the demand? And a lot of it has to do with how well the product does and the direction we go, but we looked at what we had last year and we said, “Well, we can do it again this year”. And so making sure you have a good understanding of the load balance and you have a good understanding of how your recruiting team is structured is the only way you can give a good, accurate answer of saying, “Yeah, 400 hires, 500 hires, we can do that.”
20:00 Rob: Yeah. Load balancing is such an important exercise, I think. You’re never too early to do a load balancing exercise, I think. You never do big or small because you’re gonna… In some cases, talent might have this order come down from on high, “We need to grow by this many people. And every hiring manager wants to add to their team, and we have the budget for it, so this is what we’re gonna do.” And you have to be able to push back and say, “Look, if you wanna hire that many people, fine. But with the current recruiting team, we would have to be working 36-hour days to do it. So we either have to hire on my team first or re-evaluate our goals.” So is that load balancing, is that a project that you’ve personally worked on?
20:40 Max: Yeah, recruiter capacity, load balancing, understanding that because you’re head of talent, when they’re at the table with all the executives and your founders and your board members, you wanna say, “Can we confidently say we can fill this this year?” And there’s only one way to answer that question. You wanna look at some historical stuff, you wanna look at the team you’ve had, you wanna look at the numbers they put up, and you can do that pretty quickly. But yeah, having a good understanding of recruiter capacity is a huge part of this role, and in just recruitment in general. You don’t wanna just say, “Oh, we need to hire a bunch more recruiters,” you wanna look back at how many reqs were they able to carry, how many positions were they able to fill by quarter, and then I go from there. So there’s plenty of calculators, there’s plenty of tools out there. We use Lever Talent Intelligence, for example, and that’s where we look at a lot of the data and it gives us some good load balancing about how many roles a recruiter is carrying, and how many positions they’ve filled, and what their average time to fill is. And then you just plug that all in and you know how you can set up and work with the forecast.
21:41 Rob: Do you plug that into a spreadsheet you’ve made yourself or…
21:45 Max: So Lever Talent Intelligence is a Tableau product. And so, yeah, we’ve played around some different things, and the way I display it is usually exporting that, putting it into a spreadsheet. But you can do a lot of different fun things with the Lever Talent Intelligence, but you also have to know a good amount of Tableau as well, so kind of teaching myself and learning on the side, and building some dashboards that are gonna be useful for our executives, and for hiring managers, and then for our recruiting team, and how often we display those numbers in those dashboards. So it’s a powerful tool, it really is. Whatever you wanna know from a recruiting front, you can pretty much build it there. But also learning how to customize and build and play Tableau has its own challenges.
22:29 Rob: I wonder, is the pushback on a calculated recruiter load capacity like “Yeah, but you guys will be more efficient this year, right?” Do you bake that into your calculation where it’s like, okay, we hired this many this year, but we’re also gonna be X percent more efficient.” So is that part of it or is that not a fair way to look at the problem?
22:48 Max: Yeah, I haven’t really been a part of those conversations that our head of talent’s having, but do we bake it into the calculation? No, not really. Is it the conversation that happens and that she wants to highlight some of the underlying data that doesn’t show? Yeah. Are they well-calibrated, were they hired in last three months, and then now that they’ve been here for six months, is that gonna change things? Most likely. You wanna take some of those things into consideration, and also different regions, different hiring managers, restructuring, and also the focus of where we’re gonna spend our time; maybe we move RC over to a sourcer. And so you wanna take some of those movements and changes into consideration, but is it really baked in with our core senior recruiters, technical recruiters? No, it’s not. It’s just looking at what we did last year, what’s the team we have, let’s do it.
23:33 Rob: Right, right. Yeah, that’d be kinda nebulous anyway, to be like, “We’re gonna be 13% more efficient this year.” What does that even mean?
23:39 Max: Right. And you don’t even… I mean, we’re so new, and companies that are so new, they don’t think about attrition. And we looked at our attrition in 2017 and ’18, and so we’re baking that into how we’re planning. But that’s also something that a lot of companies struggle with who don’t really have that answer.
23:56 Rob: Yeah, for sure. I’m curious what your pie-in-the-sky project would be. You obviously have these products in which you’re embroiled, and you have meetings to go to and whatnot, and maybe you’re chiming in on hiring here and there, too. If you could just take a week or a period of time to just be heads down, not bothered by anyone, or using your resources in the company to do one recruiting ops project, what would you wanna optimize?
24:25 Max: That’s a good question. My head’s been all over the place the last three months, but I always get drawn back to… At the end of the day, I wanna make my recruiters’ lives easier. And some of the challenges we have right now, and where I would wanna go away and just correct, is for the first time we put it in req approval process. We can’t just open up jobs and send out offers without letting anyone know, and we can’t just do our own thing and do a bunch of this ad hoc reactive hiring that we’ve done for quite some time. But having a very clear approval process, and having a very clear interview structure, and then sending out the offer and going through an approval process, and sending that to where it’s a win-win, where it’s very clear for the recruiter what to do, as well as creating a better candidate experience. Because we had so much change, and we had a lot of candidates in and out that I really wanna improve the overall candidate experience and identify the areas we’re lacking. And so really just making the recruiters’ job easier, knowing what they have to do. And then also that plays into candidates that come through the process, they know what to expect. And at the end of the day, it’s a timely manner and they have a good experience.
25:44 Rob: So right now, you said there is that req approval process, or…
25:47 Max: There is.
25:47 Rob: Okay.
25:48 Max: Yeah. It’s fairly new, and so we’ll make adjustments as we go, but it is something that is new to the team, and so we’re all adjusting, but it’s on its way.
26:00 Rob: What does that mean? Does that mean a hiring manager can just open one up? Who’s approving these reqs?
26:05 Max: Yeah, it’s a chain, and most ATSs will provide this, but instead of having a hiring manager say, “I need to hire this and that,” and the recruiter says, “Okay,” versus a recruiter, you wanna say, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’ll help you out, I’ll get this done as soon as possible.” But now having the recruiting manager, or sorry, the recruiter send it through, open up the req in Lever, it’s gonna a trigger a process to where it’s gonna go to the finance team. And they’re gonna double-check what they have and say, “Yeah, that looks right.” And then it’s gonna go to someone… To the people team, and they say, “Yep, that one’s been open,” or “We need to hire that one.” And then it finally goes to the leader of the org and says, “Oh yeah, we talked about this. That is one of the key hires we wanna make this year.” And once they finalize that approval, then that’s the recruiter’s green light to say, “Go. The clock starts.”
26:52 Rob: Okay, got it. So you… When someone has this request, you don’t say, “Yeah, I’d love to hire them,” you say, “We’ll see.” Right?
27:00 Max: Yeah, it’s more of a… It’s probably in plan, since we’re asking for it, but let’s just make sure that the title, and the location, the hiring manager, some of those basic core features are aligned and approved.
27:13 Rob: Right. That sounds like the kind of process that you’ll end up critically looking at to be like can we shorten this, because like you say, it’s already been talked about, it’s not officially-officially greenlit, but it’s not out of nowhere, it’s not just being brought to you in a vacuum, so there’ll probably be ways… Is there one… Can we still do this with one less thumbs up from someone, right?
27:34 Max: Right, yeah, or the worst case scenario, where I unfortunately see so many organizations, where they have recruiters go through the whole recruitment process, and speak to a couple hundred candidates, and get finally someone to offer stage, and that gets declined. And so if you’re able to get the approvals and the green light at the front end, then you know that this is someone that you can hire and within these bands. And so we’re just trying to save time, and also putting in SLAs, and letting leaders know, executives and finance and so forth know that they have 24 hours to approve this requisition, and that it’s time sensitive, and we’re just saving ourselves a lot of time on the front end versus the offer stage.
28:10 Rob: Yeah, exactly. Well, Max, we’re creeping up on optimal podcast length here. So at this juncture, I’d just say thanks so much for being here. Lime is going through some crazy explosive growth, if that sounds exciting to you, anyone out there in podcast land, get in touch with Max Butler. I don’t know if you guys are hiring. I probably should’ve asked that before I plugged your company. [chuckle]
28:28 Max: We are. Always hiring. Always hiring top talent, so feel free to reach out.
28:32 Rob: Well, I guess I should’ve assumed that of the 500 people you were hiring, one would be on your team, so [chuckle] that’s…
28:36 Max: I hope so.
28:37 Rob: Yeah. I hope so, too. Well, Max, this has been great. Thanks so much for being here. And good luck with all those hires.
28:42 Max: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
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