Jacqui and Rob discuss how Greenhouse will put it’s recent funding towards hiring, how to conduct impactful (and well-attended) interview training, eliminating technical skill bias in culture interviews, and the three different buckets her KPIs fit into.
00:02 Rob Stevenson: Hello, you darling rabble of talent acquisition wonders. Welcome back to your favorite recruiting podcast. I’m Rob Stevenson here at the helm and we are e-gathered once more to join hearts and hands in the surge forth on a neverending mission towards the ultimate truth necessary in the greater journey of sourcing, engaging, interviewing, assessing, hiring, onboarding, and retaining top talent. If you never heard the show before, here’s all you need to know. Every week I’m going to be bringing in my favorite people in recruitment: Directors of recruiting, heads of talent, VPs of HR, you name it, I’ll get ’em in here, and they are all gonna do primarily one thing: Talk Talent To Me.
00:39 RS: This week’s episode is a great one with a wonderful guest from a company many of you know and love. But before we get into that, first some quick business. This week’s episode is brought to you by Emailio. Emailio scrapes the social web to uncover personal, intimate, previously unshared in public information about your candidates, molding it together into an automated personalized email you can use to engage with your next great hire. Emailio uses the latest in deep learning and neural network technology to form outreach that passes the Turing Test among 78% of its subjects. At long last, remove that final vestige of human-to-human interaction from your hiring process and generate a work force that mirrors your outreach, cold, robotic, and unfeeling. Emailio, because you’re only human after all. Go to emailio.com/podcast and enter offer code FIK for 20% off your first month.
01:33 RS: Joining me this week on Talk Talent To Me is Jacqui Maguire, the Director of Talent Acquisition for Greenhouse, the beloved ATS of, no doubt, a huge swathe of you. And we covered a ton of ground. We talked about how Jacqui is going about some immense hiring goals in light of Greenhouse’s recent funding, how she’s ensuring the org is set up to assess all those new candidates and receive them once they become new hires. We cover interview training, we cover how to reduce technical skills bias in the culture interview, we cover what technical skills bias even is, and then a bunch of stuff about KPIs, including role level metrics per open rec, individual performance among the recruiting team, and high level stuff to count out the effectiveness of the whole internal recruiting team.
02:18 RS: I think you’re all really gonna love this one so, without further rigamarole, hubbub or brouhaha, I give you Greenhouse’s Director of Talent Acquisition, Jacqui Maguire.
03:07 RS: Jacqui, how are you? Welcome to the show.
03:12 Jacqui Maguire: Doing well. Thank you so much for having me on, Rob.
03:15 RS: Yeah, yeah, I’m excited. I’m an unabashed Greenhouse fanboy. I’ve gotten to podcast with your CEO, Daniel, before. I have a Greenhouse sticker on my computer. So that’s the level of fanboy head. You know it’s real when there’s a computer stick or involved, right?
03:32 JM: That’s fantastic. I love to hear that. You know we’re great partners, Greenhouse and Hired, so it’s always fun for us to get to collaborate in different areas.
03:43 RS: Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I love writing interview feedback. That’s a weird thing about me. It’s like whenever I get to go into Greenhouse and just write the next great American novel on a product marketing role or a candidate we talked about, is just like… I don’t know. Some people dread that and they don’t like doing it. I can’t wait to do it personally. [chuckle]
04:01 JM: Hearing that in a recruiter’s dream. We love people who love to give feedback. [chuckle]
04:06 RS: Yeah. Well, at a certain point it’s like, “Okay, Rob, that was 1,200 words. Let’s cool it.” [chuckle] Maybe get back to actual content. [chuckle]
04:14 JM: Have you found the limit? There is a limit that’s very high in Greenhouse scorecards of how many words. Very few have ever hit it, so I’ve heard from our product team.
04:24 RS: Oh, no, I haven’t. But now I have a goal for the next one I write.
04:28 RS: Is it like 5,000 words or something?
04:30 JM: Creating a monster. I’m actually not sure. I’ve just heard of this mythical limit.
04:35 RS: Okay, well, yeah. Now I have something to work for, which is… So I have that [04:39] ____, which is good already. I, again, love Greenhouse, excited to chat with you. I’m curious, just right off the bat, what are you working on, what are some of your top of mind initiatives over there?
04:49 JM: Sure. So as a company, you may have heard we just got an additional 50 million in funding, which is very exciting for our growth.
04:58 RS: Yes.
05:00 JM: So that means we’re doing some hiring. Doing a lot of focus on hiring some engineers, focus on building out our product to continue supporting the enterprise customer. We’ve done great work for our SMB and mid-market customers, and now we’re hiring some engineers, hiring some customer success and sales folks to take care of our enterprise customers.
05:22 RS: Right, definitely. So that, the funding announcement, is always really, really exciting. For you, that means a heroic amount more work, right? Because you’re gonna be meeting with department heads and hiring managers, and basically scoping out all the headcount planning, right?
05:36 JM: Yes. For me and my fantastic team of eight recruiters and coordinators, we’re definitely looking at a busy H2 of this year.
05:46 RS: Where do you start with all that? Where do you begin to allocate resources?
05:50 JM: Good question. Right now we’re still in the planning phase. So right now it’s, as you said, a lot of work with our VP of Finance, a lot of work with all of our department heads, to figure out the places that it makes the most sense to allocate our recruiting resources. Something that is super important to us is make sure that we always grow responsibly. So we never want to put ourselves in a position where we’re, I guess you can say hiring too fast. We wanna make sure that we pace ourselves, grow responsibly, and really focus on always making the best hires, and be really thoughtful about the positions that we’re filling across the company. So a lot of my work right now is expectation setting with the department heads and hiring managers as to what responsible growth looks like.
06:42 RS: Okay, so that would be… Would you be planning with them on… What are you hoping to accomplish with these hires as opposed to opening a bunch of recs, like challenging hiring managers to be thoughtful about what they need from these roles and how much additional resources they actually need?
07:03 JM: Yeah, exactly, so figuring out what the most important roles are to hire and making sure that we pace out the hires so that each individual new hire has a thoughtful interview process that’s really targeted towards finding the best people for the business needs that need to be fulfilled for Greenhouse, and then pacing them out so that we are giving great attention to each hire, and then each hire, when they start, can have a thoughtful onboarding process as well, and it’s not a chaotic, hire as many people as fast as you can and then onboard them all in a day, probably isn’t the most thoughtful way. So we try to make sure we’re pacing that out in a really thoughtful way that makes the best hires for Greenhouse at the right time, and has everyone starting in a more structured and controlled way.
07:58 RS: Yeah, yeah, that seems like an underrated aspect of hyper-growth or hiring. It’s like okay, you usually think of it in terms of, do we have the interview bandwidth, do we have enough recruiters, do we have enough candidate pipeline? But once you get these people in the door, are you even actioned to give them a good experience and set them up for success?
08:19 JM: Exactly. So we make sure at Greenhouse that the talent acquisition and talent management teams are really tight-knit and working closely in ensuring that it’s a seamless process because, if you think of the candidate journey and sort of the timeline, talent acquisition covers everything before that offer is signed, talent management, people operations, employee experience, all those other sides of the people team, or HR team, are handling everyone post offer time. And so we make sure that those two sides are in close communication so that we can cover the full candidate journey from the day they apply, or the first time they see the name Greenhouse on LinkedIn or through Hired, so from that moment all the way until they’re an employee at the organization.
09:10 RS: Yeah, yeah. I love that you said full candidate life-cycle there because that’s often a question you see posed, is what is the full scope of a recruiter’s responsibility in terms of a candidate? Because they’re often, the recruiter is gonna be someone’s first impression of the company, first contact, and then it’s not enough though to have them sign the offer and be like, “Okay great, now you work here,” and then you’ll show up and then, “I wash my hands of you.” So in your case, you have the talent management people operations team. So does that look like going to them and being like, “Can you receive these people?”
09:50 JM: Exactly. So making sure we pace out start dates in a way that we can manage onboarding, making sure that we are in close communication with our employee experience team that manages where people sit, and that we have enough space, physical space for everyone. So there’s a lot of different aspects that we make sure we’re working closely on. Even, every once in a while, a hiring manager might say, “I’d love to hire someone to cover customer success in the Midwest.” Well, that flags us to talk to people operations and make sure we can pay someone in a different state. There’s a lot that goes behind it and it’s all about communication and cross-communication between all areas of the people team. And far too often, recruiting can get siloed into a separate division. I’ve even worked at times where recruiting didn’t report to people, where recruiting… Or HR. Recruiting reported into operations, which makes sense in some ways, it’s an operational function, but without close communication between recruiting and all other areas of people teams, you can lose a lot in candidate and new hire experience.
11:05 RS: Yeah, absolutely. I think as just blanket advice to all recruiters, I would love them all to just push back, right? Push back against hiring managers, push back with talent management, challenge people to be thoughtful and don’t allow yourself to be an order-taker. ‘Cause that’s kind of been a traditional approach to recruiting, at least on the other side, at least your customers, your hiring managers who have the jobs they need filled, is like, “Alright, I need this role filled. Now go off and write my job description and source the candidate and bring them in.” And maybe I’m a bit naive here, but it seems it’s only been recently that recruiting has been able to kind of push back and be a strategic business partner.
11:48 JM: Oh, for sure, and that’s a big part of the mission of Greenhouse. So a lot of what we want to help our clients do is create a structured data-driven process where you have the ability to act as a consultant for your internal team. If you’re able to do that through a thoughtful, structured process where you’re hiring the best people for your organization, you are then becoming a consultant to the organization. You build trust and you build relationships that help recruiting to be a strategic function rather than an order-taker. I think we’re wildly fortunate at Greenhouse that we have that buy-in because our executives built Greenhouse, so we live in a very meta world here, but what we’re trying to do is be the example of the best people team possible and then help our customers to do the same.
12:54 RS: Yeah, absolutely.
12:54 JM: No pressure for my team at all. [chuckle]
12:56 RS: Right, right, right. So, tons more hiring means tons more interviewing. How are you preparing your teams to presumably do a lot more interviewing than they had before?
13:09 JM: Sure, a lot of what we’re doing is interview training, so I guess there’s two layers to that. For the recruiting team, we’ve kind of… We had a moment right when our new funding was announced, and we knew it was sort of that hold your breath. We kept talking about it. It’s like when you see a cat kind of leaning back and they’re ready to pounce. We were in that for a couple of weeks, in that stance of just waiting, and that mental preparation of, “Okay, we’re ready to go.” So for our team it was a lot about prioritizing. All of our hires come first and just ready to go a 110% full speed ahead. For the rest of the company, a lot of it is around training. We have new people who are building teams, so new managers who are new hiring managers. We have new employees who we’re getting involved in the interviewing process. So we do a number of different types of training at Greenhouse around interviewing so that our whole team can be prepared to support us in hiring. It’s a little bit cheesy, but you’ll often hear people at Greenhouse say recruiting is a team sport. And we make sure that everyone is involved and feels really prepared to be involved in the hiring process.
14:38 RS: Yeah, yeah. Of course. If recruiting is a team sport, how does point guard Jackie Maguire tip off an interview training? How do you decide what to feature? Is it when roles are kicked off? I don’t know. I guess I asked you a bunch of questions at once but take your pick.
14:55 JM: Yep. Well, first I’ll let you know, you can use any sports analogies and I’ll smile and nod and go along. [laughter] So you’re good there. The way that we do our interview training, we actually have three different types of interview training at Greenhouse depending on your role in the interview process. The first is what we call Interview 101. So we typically hold that every quarter. When we’re getting ready for a lot of interviews, we’ll hold it a little bit more frequently. And it’s a general interview training. The second is our culture add interview training which is specific to being a culture add interviewer at Greenhouse, and the third is the hiring manager training, really a way for us to set expectations with our hiring managers as to what they can expect from us, and what we expect from them, since they’re the highest touchpoint of interviewer. I could go into a little bit more detail in the different areas if that’s interesting.
16:00 RS: Yeah, yeah. I wish you would.
16:02 JM: So for our Interview 101 training, it’s the training that every employee at Greenhouse pretty much goes through. And it’s… Essentially my biggest focus when we built out this training was to move away from your sort of compliance-driven interview training of the past. I think that many organizations just thought interview training as a necessary evil and a way to avoid getting sued, which is important, don’t get me wrong, but I think that we’re fortunate at Greenhouse that we’re not worried about intentional discrimination, and I think that most companies, of course they’ll speak to your internal legal advice. I am not a lawyer, I can’t give legal advice, but that’s not the type of training that we’re trying to do. It’s not about compliance. It’s about helping the company to hire the best people.
16:57 JM: So we’ve divided the interview training into three sections. The first is actually titled the “The Rules” and it is a brief overview of the laws so that everyone feels prepared and feels comfortable knowing that they are asking and saying and doing the right thing. So briefly touching on protected classes and what that means, and good questions versus potentially offensive or illegal questions. But we do that part briefly. The second part is about bias in interviewing. A big part of the Greenhouse product, a big focus of what we do at Greenhouse is helping not only our internal interviewers, but helping all of our client companies to reduce bias through a structured process.
17:45 RS: Sure.
17:46 JM: So we talk a lot about the different ways that unconscious bias can come into play while you’re interviewing. The last section of that three part training, which is an hour total, is tactical guidance. So we want our interviewers to know what we expect of them and know what they can expect of us. So it’s a little bit of how to use the Greenhouse product, right? We all… Our salespeople know how to sell it, [chuckle] our marketing people know how to market it, but to actually use it and fill out score cards, and where you can find all the information that you need to be successful, we go through just the tactics of filling out a score card, just to make sure that everyone’s set up for success. So that’s our most common interview training that pretty much everyone at Greenhouse attends.
18:32 RS: Got it. So you go over… You go over some compliance and legal stuff, right? Important. Then you go over bias, and then you show people how to actually use the product. And this is important for any ATS you own, right? You can’t just like…
18:48 JM: Oh yeah.
18:48 RS: As a recruiter, you may live inside your ATS, whatever it is, but then you have to realize that people on interview panels, they are probably logging into it for the first time, whereas they should be giving feedback. What constitutes good feedback? I think that’s important too. I think it’s not just enough to give a couple of thumbs up, thumbs down and then copy paste your notes into the comments box. You need to be thoughtful about explaining why or why if someone did not meet the areas of the evaluation that you were meant to cover in the interview.
19:21 JM: Yeah, exactly, and I would say that part of the training is the part that is most specific to each organization. Depending on the size of your recruiting team, depending on the ATS you use, or whether or not you use an ATS, that tactical guidance is gonna look very different, but it’s really important in creating a strong relationship and a trusting relationship between the recruiting team and the interviewers, in that you set the expectation of what that system and process should look like for your organization. You’re never gonna get feedback if you don’t train people or teach them or even just show them how to give you feedback.
20:01 RS: Yeah, absolutely. I have gone through interview training a couple of different times, and I’ll admit, the second or third time I was invited to one by a recruiter, I thought, “I don’t need to go to that. I’ve done this before,” which was unfair of me, because you can’t assume, one, that your previous organizations did it right, and two, that, like you say, especially in the ATS and another areas, there’s stuff that is very specific from organization to organization. So if you’re… And then I also suspect that my reflex to say I don’t need it is pretty common. How do you get people to realize it’s important and to take part in this?
20:43 JM: Yeah, so we actually, given that ours is not compliance driven, we don’t require it, and I think that’s actually been a benefit to us. I will give the caveat that at Greenhouse, recruiting is our culture, and setting a tone for having a strong hiring culture in your organization, you don’t have to be building an ATS in order to build a strong hiring culture. You can do that anyway. And if you have that, people will show up. People are excited to interview and bring people, new members to the team. On top of that, we’re very open about what the content is, so we invite the entire company every time we do it. Not everybody shows up. We would in no way expect everybody to do the same training quarterly, but a lot of people do like a refresher and like to hear the information over.
21:38 JM: And we say what the content is going to be, so they know it’s not gonna be an hour of just learning about Title IX and protected classes. They know it’s partially that. It’s partially about becoming conscious of your unconscious bias in interviewing, which is something that, believe it or not, excites people. And then there’s also, they know that they’ll be set up for success by showing up and that they’ll know what tactical guidance they need. And when you give that information and say, “This isn’t required. It’s something we built to help you, and we would love every one to attend,” they show up. I will say there have been times where I specifically went to interviewers and said, “Hey, I would love it if you showed up. We just had this conversation about how to use the product. It’s clear that you haven’t gone through the training. It’s an hour of your time next Wednesday. It would be awesome if you could show up and sit through the training.” So we will every once in a while give a gentle nudge to ask someone specifically, but for the most part, we ask everyone who’d like to join every quarter and we get a pretty good turnout.
22:47 RS: Okay. So it’s quarterly, so it’s not like a constant thing, that’s good. And you do it in bulk, would you do it like for everyone that wants to come? Is it broken out into… ’cause I’ve seen it done every which way, I’ve seen it like, “Alright, anyone who wants to show up,” or I’ve seen it, “Alright, this team today, you’re doing interview training.” The team-based one, that kind of bleeds into interview kick-off meetings a little bit, which…
23:10 JM: Yeah.
23:10 RS: So I think it’s probably better to do it.
23:12 JM: I found benefits of having various teams in the same room, because you get interesting conversation and interesting questions that you don’t necessarily get if you have all the same team. What we’ve done with scheduling is we put it out to the whole company and encourage new hires who are new to Greenhouse, but put it out to the whole company. If we have more than… I think our cut-off is if there’s more than 20 people, we split it into two sessions, because it’s hard to have a collaborative room when you have too many people, so then we’ll try and split it into two sessions. And the different collaborative pieces, it doesn’t turn into just me talking at a room for an hour.
24:00 RS: Right, right, right.
24:00 JM: Nobody wants that.
24:03 RS: So you allow people to interview even if they haven’t done the training, right?
24:07 JM: We do. I think by making it less of a mandatory burden, we get a little bit more buy-in, so we do allow people to interview without going through the training. I will say that’s different for the other two trainings I mentioned. Anyone who would like to be a culture add interviewer at Greenhouse is required to go through the culture ad training because it is very nuanced. Similar, all hiring managers or new hiring managers are required to go through our hiring manager training in order to set the relationships up for success.
24:42 RS: Right, right. The culture interview is an interesting one. I’m seeing it pop up more and more, and it seems like it’s usually someone from a different team. Sometimes I’ve seen people… There’s a half dozen people in an org are specifically identified as like, “You are going to be a culture interviewer.” And this might be someone who has touched a lot of teams, who is considered a cultural pillar, I guess, for lack of a better word, but the whole “not a culture fit” thing has been a cop out and has… Usually means “doesn’t look like me”, which is why there’s been the shift to culture add versus culture fit. Where am I going with this? I have to turn this into question at some point. [chuckle] I guess, what does the culture add interview look like at Greenhouse?
25:27 JM: Yeah. So I will say it’s a constantly evolving process because we want to make sure we’re thoughtful about it. Our current structure is that in the actual interview, there will always be two people from two different teams outside of the team that that candidate is interviewing for. So that sounded way more complicated than it is. If someone is interviewing for an engineering position, they’ll be interviewed by a marketer and a customer success person. So it’s done for a couple of reasons. One, it helps us to reduce what we call technical skills bias, meaning the marketer and the customer success person aren’t going to be tempted to interview that person for their engineering skills. They’ll be focused on their values and their cultural add because they don’t have the engineering skills or the ability to bring in that technical skills bias.
26:31 JM: Additionally, it gives that engineer who’s interviewing the opportunity to see more of Greenhouse. Too often in interview processes, you’ll see, you’ll only meet people who are in that inner team, and that’s not a realistic view of joining a company. That’s a very limited view, and in reality, that engineer is going to have to work with people in other departments, so it’s only fair to give them the opportunity to meet people in other departments. So that’s our general structure. On top of that, we think of culture add interviews as values alignment. So rather than saying you fit the culture and you are the same as other people, because culture fit, as you mentioned, could imply sameness, culture add is saying, “We want people who align with the values that we have as a company, and we want them to add and bring something new and different to our organization.” So it’s our way of shifting from that sameness to saying people can share the same set of values and also bring something different to the table.
27:41 JM: What we’ve structured is 12 questions that are aligned to determine whether people share our six core values as a company. And anyone in the organization, anyone at Greenhouse is welcome to be a culture add interviewer, as long as they’ve been at the company more than six months. So we say if you’ve been… Sorry, more than three months. If you’ve been here more than three months, come to the training and become a culture add interviewer. In the training, we give them exposure to the 12 questions that are part of that kit. So it’s always a consistent kit. So it’s not about, “Do I like this person?” It’s as far from a beer test as we can go, which is what I think the old school culture add interviews were, or culture fit interviews, were that beer test.
28:32 RS: Right, would I have a beer with this person?
28:34 JM: Exactly. This is… I’m asking you a set of structured questions to ensure that your values align. Are you collaborative? Are you authentic? Are you customer-focused? And then, are you interested in adding new things to the team that we don’t already have? Are you bringing your own unique perspective to Greenhouse? So it’s our way of shifting the thinking around that. I’m talking a little bit more about the structure than the actual interview training though.
29:03 RS: No, no, that’s fine, this is all really, really, really good. I was wondering, when you mentioned that, for example, in an engineering interview, you would have a marketer or a CS person conduct the culture interview, and it occurred to me that, especially as a company gets bigger, it’s more common for individual teams to develop their own sort of culture. And it’s not vastly different than the company’s at large, but it’s just natural. They work with those people more than anyone else, they might have less, especially at a smaller stage, they would have less interaction with other functions. But then you kind of answered my question. I was worried that the marketer and CS person might not be able to understand what the specific culture of an engineering team would be and whether that person would be an add or not, but it sounds to me like that’s exactly the point, right? That you don’t want to have the engineering team, who has their own existing culture, evaluating on whether they’ll fit in, right? You want other people evaluating at a higher level, will this person add to the organization as a whole, regardless of what an individual team works like?
30:09 JM: Exactly. And there are cases where we’ll have, for an engineer, they may have some form of a team collaboration interview, in addition to the culture add. So if it is very important that they possess certain skills, soft skills that are specific to that team, we will add that into another part of the interview process, but we try to keep the culture add consistent across the organization and across every role, regardless of department or level.
30:43 RS: Right, right, makes sense. Okay, so you’ve got all these new roles you’re going to have to hire for in the wake of additional funding; your team is well trained to go out and conduct these interviews having gone through the quarterly interview training that’s not mandatory. How do you go about measuring the success here, in terms of your own team, in terms of how do you take what’s happening in those interviewers and what you’re seeing in Greenhouse, and use that to articulate to the team how you’re performing and to iterate internally?
31:17 JM: For sure. So I think of KPIs and metrics for performance sort of at three levels. There’s three different things that, three different levels that we measure, one being role-level metrics. So looking at the pipeline data for a specific role to set expectations. The next level that you can look at is individual performance on the team, which I kind of think is more of a, not every time you open a role or not to look at it in every rec that a recruiter is on, but look at recruiter and coordinator performance quarterly. And then I think what answers your question the most is the KPIs that we track. So how do we know that we were successful in accomplishing what the business needed us to accomplish? We actually track five KPIs that we report on every quarter, and recently added a sixth that we’re trying out. So what we look at, first, we’re looking at how many qualified candidates do we have for every open role? So are we putting enough qualified candidates in the pipeline? And that’s something that the recruiters control. Then we look at days to offer. So how long from when the winning candidate applies to when they sign their offer? So are we moving candidates through the process quickly?
32:41 RS: Right.
32:42 JM: The next thing we’re looking at is candidate satisfaction. So we use the Greenhouse candidate surveys, but I think there’s a number of ways that you can track candidate satisfaction. It’s really important to us that we are giving every candidate, regardless of whether or not they find an offer, a positive experience with us. Then the fourth would be offer acceptance rate, which I think is a very common one to track, and very important. Are we getting candidates to sign our offers? And then finally, another very important but very common is hires to goal. So are we actually hiring the number of employees that the business needs us to hire?
33:22 RS: Okay, got it. And that is, that’s sort of team-wide, departmental success measurement that you would use to communicate to the rest of the organization and to your boss, I guess?
33:34 JM: Yeah, exactly. So we look at that every quarter. We track those five performance indicators, we send them to the executive team and to all of our hiring managers, as well as looking at them internally amongst the recruiting team, to look at… To find ways that we can improve our process. One quarter we may see that our days-to-offer have spiked, and we’ll look and say, “Well, why?” Why did it take us so long to close our candidates? And we can kind of whittle down from there to find out what was going on, and if it’s something that we can improve in the future.
34:09 RS: Right, right. So I was curious about that, about which of those are for the sake of reporting to external teams, and which of them are the ones that you turn around internally, “Okay, this is what we should… What we can individually measure ourselves on”?
34:25 JM: Yeah, so actually, all five are both. So we report all five to the greater… To the leadership and all of our hiring managers, and then we look at all five internally and try and make updates to each. Certain ones can actually be tracked down to individuals as well, where we’ll look at… What we report on is the days to offer in aggregate, the average amongst all of the candidates we hired that quarter. But each recruiter will pull, when we do their quarterly performance review, which isn’t what we call them internally; we call them our look-back outlook, but when we’re looking back on the last quarter, each recruiter will pull their own personal days to offer and see how they were doing in their performance. Some of them we can do at a recruiter or coordinator level, like hires to goal, offer acceptance rate, days to offer. Candidate satisfaction is an anonymous survey, so that we can only look at the aggregate, but we have quarters, like last quarter, Q2 of 2018, we had 100% positive response in our surveys. So that was something that the entire team can say they impacted, and we could all celebrate together. So it’s not all about finding the things we did wrong, but also finding the things that we did really well and celebrating it.
35:41 RS: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well done on the 100% success rate.
35:45 JM: First time we’ve ever done it, it was really exciting. [laughter]
35:48 RS: Yeah, yeah, nowhere to go but down.
35:51 JM: Yeah, right.
35:53 RS: Where… Is it important that that stays obfuscated? Because it would strike me that if maybe there was a particularly, I don’t wanna say egregious, but there could be something that happened that really set some one person off, wouldn’t it be important to know who that specifically was so you could dig into the details?
36:11 JM: It would be helpful sometimes, and we think we get more feedback and more data overall by keeping it anonymous. So the way that the surveys are built in the Greenhouse platform, they’re completely anonymous, but they ask eight questions in a scale of strongly disagree to strongly agree, and what we choose to measure in candidate satisfaction is the response to the first of the eight questions, which is overall my experience was a positive one. So it’s almost like our recruiting NPS score. And our goal is to keep that over 90% because as you said, there may be someone who had… We can’t expect it at 100% every quarter. There are certain people who… We can’t always control everyone’s emotions. And we can make sure that 90% of the people who interact with Greenhouse have a positive experience. And just to be clear, it’s both candidate… It’s anybody who’s gotten to on-site interview stage with us, regardless of whether or not they got an offer. So far more of these people are candidates that did not get offers with Greenhouse than candidates that did.
37:18 RS: Right, right, just as important in both cases I’d imagine, perhaps more so in the case that… In the case that they did not take a job, because the people who did take a job, you might still be in honeymoon phase, and like, “Great, great, great, everything was great, I loved being… ”
37:32 JM: Yeah.
37:33 RS: You kind of want the people who maybe would be a little bit more critical, right? That helps you get better.
37:37 JM: Exactly, exactly. And it’s important to us that people who didn’t get roles with us still had an amazing experience. They will go out and be brand ambassadors for us, and say to their friends, “Oh, I didn’t get a job at Greenhouse but it was an awesome company. You should go apply for this role.” We’ve actually had that happen with candidates who were not given offers actually email a recruiter and say, “Hey, I know I didn’t get an offer but I have a friend who I think would be a great fit. Would you be open to meeting them?” And that’s kind of like the ultimate win for us. It means that we were able to give a really great experience to someone to the point that they are willing to promote us externally, and that’s super important for our business overall.
38:26 RS: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, Jackie, we’ve covered a lot of ground today, a lot of yardage [laughter] behind us, I guess, to use another sports metaphor that I barely understand. I think you can use the word yardage and people will think you know what you’re talking about.
38:40 JM: Yeah, I’ll accept it.
38:42 RS: Okay, Jackie accepts it, good. She’s smiling and nodding, for those of you who can’t see her out there in podcast land. But yeah, this has been really great. We talked about all the different KPIs, interview training, candidate experience. Lots of really wonderful stuff here. And I could keep picking your brain on this, but I wanna let you to get back to doing your thing and attacking all those new hires you have to make.
39:07 JM: Yeah, I’m gonna go out and start doing some phone screens right now. Thank you so much for the conversation, Rob. This was awesome.
39:14 RS: Yeah, this was absolutely a blast. Thank you, thank you so much, Jackie. Well, there you have it everyone Jackie Maguire, Director of Recruiting at Greenhouse. That about does it for me here in my makeshift recording studio at Hired HQ. Another edition of Talk Talent To Me in the books, thank you much for joining us. Once more, I have been Rob Stevenson. Jackie Maguire has been Jackie Maguire. And you have all been amazing, wonderful, talented, beautiful talent acquisition pros. Have a spectacular week, and happy hunting.
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