Corrine Ishio

AttackIQ Head of Global Talent Corrine Ishio

Corrine IshioHead of Global Talent Acquisition

Corrine Ishio discusses what responsibility talent teams should plan in playing a consultative approach with candidates, as well as how to be honest with yourself about your career motivations and make sure you are playing the long game in recruitment.

Episode Transcript

EPISODE 275

[INTRODUCTION]

[0:00:06.1] RS: Welcome to Talk Talent to Me, a podcast featuring the most elite talent leaders on the frontline’s modern recruitment.

[0:00:12.8] FEMALE: We actually want to understand the themes of someone’s life, we want to understand how they make decisions, where are they willing to take risks and what it looks like when they fail.

[0:00:22.7] RS: No holds barred, completely off the cuff interviews with directors of recruitment, VPs of global talent, CHROs and everyone in between.

[0:00:31.1] FEMALE: Once I went through the classes and the trainings, I got the certifications through diversity and inclusion, I still felt like something was missing.

[0:00:39.7] MALE: Talent acquisition, it’s a fantastic career, you are trusted by the organization, you get to work with the C-Suite and the security at the front desk and everybody in between and everybody knows you.

[0:00:53.0] RS: I’m your host, Rob Stevenson and you’re about to hear the best in the biz, Talk Talent to Me.

[INTERVIEW]

[0:00:59.4] RS: Hello, podcast land. It is I, your occasionally humble host, Rob Stevenson here once more, coursing through space and time to bring you that sweet, sweet recruiting content you need. I have an amazing guest here who is going to help me do so today, the Head of Global Talent over at AttackIQ, Corrine Ishio. Corrine, welcome to the podcast. How are you today?

[0:01:21.3] CI: I’m great, Rob. How are you?

[0:01:23.1] RS: I’m really, really good. I am having a blast, just podcasting my heart out, and I’m glad to be doing it with you. One, because you have actually brought some real hardware to the occasion; you have headphones, you have a microphone, you have an on-air sign behind you that I’m very jealous of. So well done, you. I think even if you’re not on podcast, this is the kind of home audio visual setup people ought to be up leveling to.

So, I just want to give you a shout out for coming crust to this kind of occasion and, I got a quick crash course in some Ishio family history and the meaning of the name Ishio, which means, rock tail or in the case of your ancestors, making a tactical retreat up a mountain.

[0:02:03.3] CI: Yes.

[0:02:03.2] RS: So thank you for walking me all through all through that, I feel like I know you so well now.

[0:02:07.4] CI: Likewise, Rob, the feeling is mutual.

[0:02:09.8] RS: And you did warn me that if there is any yowling in the background, to just ignore it. Your cat is somewhere in the apartment in your house and if they make a quick cameo, that’s fine, we’ll just ask them what they think about recruiting.

[0:02:21.8] CI: Exactly and Zelda has many opinions about this because she’s frequently a silent observer on some of my interviews. So I’m sure she has a lot of insight.

[0:02:31.8] RS: She has a lot of hot takes on recruitment, if she could only be bothered to share them, right?

[0:02:36.1] CI: Yes. If she could remember it, she’s sleeping most of her life.

[0:02:40.4] RS: Yeah, too occupied knocking glasses off of countertops probably.

[0:02:44.7] CI: Yes. We have something to learn from her, all of us.

[0:02:49.0] RS: Nap and don’t show your opinion.

[0:02:52.5] CI: Well, that’s one of them. Yeah, perhaps.

[0:02:54.7] RS: Hopefully we do neither of those in the next 25 minutes or it’s going to be a very dull podcast episode. I know that won’t be the case though because you have a ton of awesome experience and I’d really just love your approach and how you kind of bring your whole self to your job.

What you’ve shared with me so far about your background has really made me excited to record here. So I’m glad to have you. Before we get too deep in the weeds, would you mind sharing a little bit about your background and what brought you to your current role at AttackIQ?

[0:03:19.0] CI: Absolutely and I was actually thinking about this today because I just finished giving an employer brand presentation to my entire team. So for the past, I mean, months now, but definitely for the past week, I’ve been thinking about my journey here at AttackIQ and I’m coming right up on my anniversary too.

So I’m just reflecting wistfully about how I felt when I first heard about the team and what initially attracted me. So as a recruiter, I think a lot of us have so much dynamism in terms of our professional backgrounds because we are always on to the next in terms of the next role to fill and that’s something that I’ve always been super passionate about as a recruiter.

AttackIQ, hearing that I would be the first recruiter internally and that I got a chance to establish a talent program, it was complete music to my ears. The role was described to me as a blank sheet of paper by my boss and I’m a writer too, so that was like, the words to use is blank sheet of paper and it was such an awesome experience to really get to make all of these amazing choices, not just about the technology and the workflows and what dashboards we were going to use, which of course, is very, very important.

But also having the opportunity to really inject my philosophy about hiring and work itself and doing that in a dynamic way that really is making an impact on a business level while also, of course, being really engaged on the ground level in a very hot industry, which is cyber security, competing in a very, very tight talent pool.

So all of that and more I could say so much. Of course, we’re mission driven, we’re doing something that’s really, really important, making the world safe for compute. I think we’re a pretty cool team and there is a lot to be excited about at AttackIQ and I could go on and on.

[0:05:13.1] RS: I’m hoping you will go on and on but first before we get a head of ourselves, would you share a little bit about that employer branding session. What did you cover and what were you hoping the team would get out of it?

[0:05:23.3] CI: Absolutely. So when I first came to AttackIQ, I was really cognizant about wanting to get to know the dynamic of work there before just launching into an employer brand strategy and that’s a keyword that always buzzes into my head, I might have already said it like five times today but authenticity is so important to how you come across as a company.

It’s not about trying to be the perfect company for everyone, it’s about being true to who you are because, there’s just no company that’s going to be the perfect company for everyone. So number one, I didn’t rush to try to define the strategy. So now, a year later, it was presenting a comprehensive strategy now that we’re immersed in who we are as a team.

For me as the recruiter, let’s make strides to give us more visibility for other people to see who we are. So that was a four-pillar strategy that I went through, which is super exciting. I try to make it, I’ll call it like bite sized and chunk sized so nothing that was over ambitious but really making sure that we are doing something manageable, so that we can be very full of honesty about who we are and how we’re representing ourselves.

[0:06:35.4] RS: So was the idea to share this in the hope of the team taking it into interviews with them or just having this sort of understanding the messaging when they speak about the company. Is there a call to action to create content? What are you hoping that they do after this?

[0:06:51.0] CI: Yes and Rob, I love that question for so many different reasons. I think it points to part of why employer brand can be a bit of a challenge for a lot of organizations. So my roundabout way of answering that is, number one, my discovery process to researching about the organizations that were investing in employer brand. It was a little bit lopsided because for most organizations, this is a relatively new thing.

It’s not something that’s always been defined over 50,000’s of years or things like that. So in terms of operational insights to bring back to my team and say, “Hey, let’s do this today and this is what this presentation was for” it was really important for me as the presenter and the leader of this initiative to operate on different fronts simultaneously.

So number one that includes just defining what employer brand is and really, underscoring the purpose of it and why it’s important to more than just me. I was kind of nerdy about it and then of course, being more boots on the ground and saying, “Hey, I’m making an awesome video and I need your content because I want to see all of you and I want to see all of us in the same digital space together.”

So trying not to overwhelm people because hey, not everyone is, it’s their job to do this and really just try and take small steps to show people the value in doing it as well.

[0:08:11.3] RS: We probably don’t have time to go through the whole thing but just for the folks at home, could you maybe rattle off what were those four pillars?

[0:08:17.9] CI: Yes and so it’s interesting because I’ll use the word amorphous and agile and I think that points to the nature of AttackIQ as a company. So we are in this really awesome hot space, specifically, it’s called breach attack simulation. I’ll let our marketing team do a lot of the work in terms of what that is.

But it’s really intriguing and really awesome and very important for our world as well and I think, number one, when I was crafting the strategy, I had to think on a large scale and also a micro scale in terms of what’s specific to our industry. What is the type of messaging and employer brand strategy that is going to be effective and relevant and most of all, authentic to us.

And so part of what that was is, hey, we all love listening to podcast and we all love digesting thought content. So how awesome would it be to tap into those audiences by figuring out what those people are interested in and just like all great marketing theory and principles, speak to them in their language.

So in this way, it’s me being a recruiter again, continually recruiting internally to get people to be the best asset, which is our own team members saying, “Hey, this is the cool thing that we’re doing.” So the four pillars include a different format for all of us to get our own voices out there, really trying to defer from that cookie-cutter methodology of, “We got jobs.”

“Jobs here, jobs here, come on down” and trying to defer from that perks, perks, perks philosophy because I’m all about perks. I’m a gal that loves perks but I think if you’re trying to be authentic, it’s about, “Hey, is this the best match for you and I don’t want to HUD wink you or pull any tricks, I want to be authentic and speak in our real voice.”

[0:10:11.9] RS: Yeah, perks are great but I don’t know if anyone’s making their decision based on that. Like, I don’t know if that tilts the scales, right? It’s about other things and about the actual work you do, right? So maybe it sounds like it’s all in the interest of you differentiating and your value prop, is that right?

[0:10:29.4] CI: Yes, absolutely and my statement about perks, perks, perks is rather a generic one. I would hope that most people aren’t doing that but I’ll allude to something that we mentioned in an earlier conversation, Rob, in terms of the emotion and so much cataclysm that goes into a candidate’s decision when they are exploring opportunities, looking to make a move and even though I absolutely agree with you that no well-founded decision is based solely on perks alone, in such a compressed decision timeframe and sometimes making emotional decisions.

These interesting things can talk to you in different ways and so, I think it is important to talk about perks because what it communicates beyond the perks themselves is that the employers are willing to invest but the part where I would really challenge my colleagues and leaders in the field is, every human being is different. A perk to one person might not be a perk to another and so, that’s why it’s again, always harkening back to what is authentic for your company and your team and finding ways to – because we all have limited resources, right?

Investing resources and highlighting those places where you can really make an impact with your perks and where you’re making a difference like say, increased learning opportunities or growth opportunities and really making sure you’re tailoring it to be authentic to the people you want to connect with and reach out to.

[0:11:52.6] RS: You mentioned a moment ago, the compressed decision making process, which in this case is choosing a new job. When you say it’s compressed, do you think we’re necessarily by the way that interviews and job offers and expectations around responses happen? Do you think that people are pushed into a scenario where they make a sub-optimal decision?

Not for AttackIQ obviously but just when you think of the way that jobs are offered and accepted at large, is that the case?

[0:12:20.2] CI: That’s a really intriguing question and I do think it’s important to answer because number one, it’s interesting because we can’t ever look into someone’s heart and fully understand their motivations and an interesting thing happens in human psychology, which is after the fact thinking.

So even if someone felt forced into a decision or a little bit of pressure, most of us want to have faith in the decisions that we make. So it’s always, there’s always this in retrospect asterisk to it but putting that aside for a second and speaking in a hypothetical sandbox, I do think that candidates are really put in this challenging, kind of risky, not even kind of, fully risky position and what you’re gaming out here has so much to do with many other factors that have nothing to do with your wellbeing or the best place you’ll be.

It’s about timing, it’s about trying to land in the right place, it’s about keeping up with the job that you have right now. It’s about tackling various hiring projects, scheduling interviews, meeting with stakeholder 1,000. So all of that and then, for most of us, we’re still working a job at the same time and so all of that is not conducive always to a healthy frame of mind and it’s very, very challenging and so I do think that that ultimately does have to affect our decision making in some way.

I’m sure others are better at coping at it versus other people but if I were to even take a peek at the future and think, what is the solution to that or where does is that leading, I would say that ultimately I lean on all of us taking personal empowerment as professionals and just trying our very best to always harken back to what is authentic to us because, if we’re steering that ship and that’s kind of our compass and we have that guiding north star of what’s super important to me, it’s growth. Don’t take my eyes off that prize.

No matter all the chaos swirling around you or the 10 other people you’re talking to, you’re going to know, that’s a little [inaudible 0:14:23.6] but you’re going to know and you’re going to be able to always go back and ask yourself that question, “Does this company have this?” and it will be hard still but I always feel like using yourself as the north star instead of just being when to change. That’s always for me, as a job seeker, how I like to operate.

[0:14:43.6] RS: How do you use yourself as the north star? What does that mean and what do you ask yourself?

[0:14:47.8] CI: Yeah, I use myself as the north star in a myriad of different ways, depending on what the question is to myself. But, specifically, for making career changes, I think number one, I ask myself as, “Why am I looking or why am I seeking and what am I seeking and what am I seeking?” and just those two questions alone have a host of implications and different answers. Sometimes what I’ll do is I’ll literally record myself and then I’ll listen back and say, “How did that answer feel?” Like, where did I insert emotion into my voice?

I’ll literally interview myself and that’s very telling and sometimes, it is uncomfortable because there’s times and let’s just pretend my name is something else and I’m thinking hypothetically but let’s just say I’m feeling super stressed in my job and I don’t realize it and I’m being super negative and I don’t realize it and then I pause to ask myself this question, “Why am I thinking of leaving?” and maybe I don’t really want to leave.

Maybe it’s something that I just need to have a conversation about. So ultimately, “How do I use myself as the North Star?” I ask myself really tough questions.

[0:15:56.3] RS: What’s a really hard question you might ask yourself? Well I guess, hold on, you can kind of started with that idea of like, why am I seeking, what am I seeking?

[0:16:04.5] CI: What could I do to make this better? Could I do anything to make this better? Could I do anything to make this worse? So usually it’s very simple questions and again, there are always sometimes they’re different questions but I think of it as framing questions and as a career coach, I’m always asking people, “Tell me about something that makes you uncomfortable” and you start that conversation either with someone that you trust or with yourself and a lot of the times the dialog itself will bring out interesting observations for you to take home with you.

So of course there’s a limit to that. Analysis-paralysis is never a good thing. Don’t overthink it but I think especially for the societal moment that we’re currently in, we don’t always feel like we have the luxury to stop, pause and reflect and I’m just here to remind people that that’s not a luxury, that’s a right and we all should do it.

[0:16:59.3] RS: Can I tell you the doozy of a question I ask myself?

[0:17:02.4] CI: Oh yeah, what’s that?

[0:17:04.7] RS: How am I complicit in creating the things in my life I say I don’t want?

[0:17:11.7] CI: Complicit, that’s a good one.

[0:17:12.7] RS: Complicit because it’s like, that’s what you have control over, right? Or if like, you say you don’t want that but it’s your fault and it also, it forces you to ask yourself, “What really is your fault?” Like, what happened to you versus what can you change, what can you change. I think that helps you get perspective around what you can like, reasonably expect.

But I do love the way you ask yourself, “What am I seeking?” and in the instance of it being the job seeking process, whatever that answer is, whatever the answer to, “What am I really seeking, why am I looking?” whatever that true answer is, it’s true whether you recognize it and say it out loud to yourself or not and when you brought up this notion of afterthought of like, “Let me justify this later with all these other pieces of data” that really weren’t than important.

So something causes you to seek a new job and then you go through an interview process and you’re like, “Well, it’s a little bit more money and did their office, I could go into twice a week, that’s cool for me but it is still hybrid. So I like that and my boss, the new boss will be good and it’s in the technology space so I think it is going to be really important and a huge industry” okay but did you want to leave your job because you thought you’re working at that industry?

Did you want to leave your job because it wasn’t adaptable to you working at home or in the office? Were you making enough money and were those really the drivers and what led you to answer that person’s LinkedIn DM? Maybe, maybe not and if they are, that’s fine. If you’re like, “I’m taking this new job because I need to make more money” like period. “I know that I’m not hitting my financial goals, I am not going to double my salary at this role” like fine and that can be your driver.

But I do think that people ignore the real reason that they come to these conversations with the recruiters and then they decide based on things that aren’t really their honest motivation.

[0:18:56.6] CI: Yes, absolutely and there’s so many things that play into that including something as far removed as the promulgation of online job board and an amalgamation of so much content around what to say in an interview and what the right things are to express and come across as and a lot of us are really good actors even to ourselves.

It’s interesting because a lot of the times, if your motivations are a little bit misaligned for whatever the reason and hey, that’s not so uncommon in this world. The trend that I typically see as a talent professional is that that usually will follow you if you are not addressing it and so that can actually perhaps block you from finding that place that you’re meant to be because you are not really being honest with yourself and so this starts to get into hairier territory.

Because this is that part that starts to verge into the place of even thinking as a talent professional about partnering with hiring managers. When you get to that decision making process and you’re saying, “Is this the one?” and you’re going through everything that you know about that person but at the end of the day, there’s no perfect candidate. You don’t know someone until you know someone.

That is part of the reason why also I love recruitment is there’s always going to be something magical and mysterious and just irreplaceable about it that you can’t put your finger on and it’s part of the magic of what we do.

[0:20:30.7] RS: So going through this exercise on one’s own, in your own job search and in your life, I think it is really important, anyone within the reach of my voice has that power to do that and as you said, not just an option. It is like a privilege and it’s been that you should take this, right? You should do this for yourself. Recruiters though as you say are in this strange position where they see other people doing it.

When you said a moment ago, “Oh, that reason will follow you if you don’t figure out what is really driving you, what is it that you’re seeking” it will follow your candidates too if they haven’t been honest and what it looks like is them not doing their best work or them quitting after six months or whatever, right? Bad for the candidate, bad for you, the recruiter, bad for the company, nobody wins.

So what is your role then as someone who understands the importance of dialing in on your motivations, what is your role in helping other people to do that and bring them along this process that they make the right decision for themselves, which in turn makes your life, your company’s life easier?

[0:21:31.6] CI: Absolutely and the word flashing in my mind is symbiosis because again, this is all for everyone’s benefit, absolutely and my answer is absolutely colored by my experience in multiple types of recruitment environments as well as my experience working in the human resources capacity. So the way that I think about this is a lot wider and in terms of how far ranging, this isn’t what your role can be.

So what I personally love about talent and also human resources is your role and the impact that you make is entirely dependent in my mind at least of how far you want to go and how much of an impact you want to make because the shocking thing to me but not so shocking actually in retrospect is how, for lack of a better word, scared, hiring managers can be about these decisions because a lot is riding on it for them as well.

This is a human being that is essentially this person is in your care now and so there’s a lot of anxiety around it and so by default especially as the talent marketplace has changed drastically and it’s ever increasingly more competitive and there’s a promulgation of resignations and people leaving earlier than expected, it’s only increased that anxious environment on the side of the employer and for good reason, I really understand that.

So you are trying to balance that as a recruiter alongside doing a good service to the human being, the candidate and helping make sure that we’re a great fit for them as well. So I am always thinking about this on so many different fronts and as you can tell I think a lot and I wear a lot of different hats especially working in a startup. It’s what I do but I simplify all of that at the end of the day.

Conversation to conversation, be transparent, be authentic, that’s my role and it can turn into a lot of different things. So I am still scheduling calendar invites on a very operational level sometimes. Other times, you are asking me my very serious opinion to analyze a human being psychological motivations, which I will tell you honestly, I am not qualified to do. So it’s everything from compliance manager to program manager to unofficial hype man to hiring expert and not every recruiter will take it that far.

There’s different schools of thought but because of my experiences in multiple industries and in multiple contacts, I love to bring all of that diversity to my role and that is part of the reason why I love AttackIQ. They let me be my full-self there.

[0:24:10.4] RS: As you say, there is only so much you can ask, right? A candidate, even if you do everything right and develop that rapport and they offer that stuff to you freely, right? There’s only so much you can really get to know of anyone in a finite amount of conversations, right? Also, you never really know someone until you know them, right? I like to say you never really know someone until you live with them.

But in this case, like let’s just leave it as you never really know someone until you are working with them and you see what they are like eight months down the road on a random Tuesday but at some point, you just have to make this leap and I really feel like everyone I speak to anyway is just the people who have been thoughtful but, “Oh, we have this awesome interview process. The people that we hire stick around, we have this great retention number.”

“We have this offer acceptance numbers” and maybe they do but at a certain point, you have to take a little bit of a leap of faith, right? You have to accept you can’t know everything, analysis-paralysis is real and if you just wait for more information, you’ll never make a decision. You have to make a choice so the plot can move forward. What is that line for you? Where do you think you have enough meaningful signals to give the offer?

[0:25:18.9] CI: Yes and I love that question and again, I am going to answer it on maybe three different fronts here but something that I have always thought of as a recruiter dating back to when I was recruiting construction and fulfillment associates, which is actually where I got started. I didn’t start in tech or cyber security or anything like that, I remember at that time as a recruiter I really wanted to recruit for more technical roles.

So I was always researching things about user experience and engineers and being the creative person that I am, I started to champion this concept that I call human experience, HX, it’s all about human experience for me and a lot of that is about being a good listener, being humble and open. So again, I am the queen of complicating but at the end of the day, I always try to distill and simplify and then give myself a core concept to return back to.

So yes and just in conversations with other recruiters, when we’re in that bullpen environment and we’re all putting our heads together and we’re talking about this candidate and this candidate and how we are and how we feel, we ask that question recruiter to recruiter, “What’s your gut check?” and that doesn’t really mean anything. It’s just especially in this environment, it can come out of nowhere that all of a sudden, someone who loved this company just took another offer, they were offering 25k more.

So as I’ve gone through this experiences in my career and then you also have those moments where you are talking to a candidate and you’ve, as you said, develop a relationship with them heart to hearts, you’ve talked to their wife maybe, you’ve talked to their family, you’ve heard their dog in the background and sometimes, they’ll even let you in and they’ll say, “Well, what do you think I should do?” and that’s always like the, “Ooh, don’t ask me that.”

What I always say in return is I so respect and appreciate because I think that’s the most extreme example, right? It’s them directly asking you, “What should I do?”

[0:27:18.2] RS: Yeah.

[0:27:19.2] CI: I’ve been asked that many times and I always say I respect and appreciate that you trust me to ask me. I am so glad that you feel safe because I always want you to feel safe but because I want you to do the best thing for you, maybe write down that list of questions and usually in the first call, I’ll talk to them about very specific things and I’ll reiterate it. So that’s kind of harkening back to a data driven approach even though this is a very emotional decision.

So inserting those guardrails so to speak but always making sure to emphasize, this is your decision, this is your life because so often people just want to hear that. I had to engineer that question by thinking, “Well, why is this person asking me?” obviously they don’t know me that well, so I don’t think that they trust me. It’s just that they’re feeling anxiety and they want someone to lean on.

So when I realized that, my approach became more about being that person less about trying to sway someone’s decision.

[0:28:18.4] RS: Yeah, it can only be born from trust, that question, because if they didn’t trust you then they wouldn’t ask because they would internally be like, “I’m not going to ask Corrine what she thinks I should do, she’s going to tell me I should take the job” right? If you asked a fridge salesman what you should do about your fridge, he’d be like, “You should buy a new one” right? But you’re not a fridge salesman.

[0:28:37.3] CI: Yeah, maybe another life, yeah.

[0:28:39.8] RS: Yeah, maybe but you take this, that is I think the opportunity. That is the consultative approach though and I think what you find is that you could end up talking someone out of a role and I really feel like that’s also an extreme example but I think recruiters should be doing that too because you might think to yourself, “I can get this person across the line. I can get them to sign the offer letter and that looks good for me as a recruiter.”

But are they going to be happy? Are they going to work out here? All these other questions like if your gut is telling you that I don’t know if this is right for this person based on what they’ve told me about what they want, don’t push them through it, right? There are lots of perverse incentives in business frankly and you’ve got bills, you got to get paid, you got to you know, get that bag.

So people do whatever they can and I would just encourage people to really play the long game because it will work out for you and also it’s just too important, these are people’s lives and a job change is such a huge life changing decision that someone makes and I want folks to treat that with the respect it deserves.

[0:29:41.5] CI: Absolutely and that brought to mind another conversation that we had regarding how talent can continue to rise to the occasion in terms of having more of a seat at the business table so to speak, how can we continue to not just hire but be embedded in the organization in terms of business goals. How can we really be effective and be of best service given our subject matter expertise.

What I thought of it in your former response is how you said, “Oh, it’s good for me the recruiter” in terms of filling a role and that hits on one of the reasons, one of the many reason I love working at AttackIQ because I don’t see my role as a recruiter here to fill roles. Of course, I am going to fill them. I mean, that is what I am here for but the philosophy of why I’m here isn’t to fill roles, it’s to make connections with quality people.

Sometimes making a connection with the quality of people doesn’t immediately tie to filling a role and that eludes to a wider culture within recruitment, which is that in a lot of different ways, it should be classified as a sales role. It requires a lot of energy, a lot of stamina, a lot of the same principles that are involved with sales roles. However as we said just a few moments ago, we are not fridge salesmen and these are human beings.

So that typically doesn’t have a timeline and I say that with all the love in my heart for figures, metrics KBRs and all of that good stuff and you do have to measure that and I start calls as well but I think once you start to as a recruiter only see numbers and as an organization, especially in an agency environment when you are tracking calls not based on the people that you are talking to but just on the numbers, then you’re tending towards more of that fridge salesman vibe and less of that consultative human experience professional vibe.

So ultimately, if we could empower recruiting teams and talent acquisition professionals to continue that beautiful perception of us as amazing assets to organizations from a business perspective and maybe detaching a little bit from these timelines, of course they’re important and hold us accountable, I would more focus on the partnership and our employer brand versus saying we must fill this role by eight-one because do you want us to find just anyone by eight-one or do you want to do eight-25 and really make that quality connection.

So that’s another thing, it talks into why a lot of recruiters that I know unfortunately many have left the profession because it requires a lot of discipline. We have a lot of freedom most of the time in defining our workflows and it is definitely a job that’s very susceptible to burnout. So that’s my hope for the future and I am excited for podcasts like yours that are empowering talent leaders everywhere, so thank you.

[0:32:45.6] RS: Thank you for sharing that and for naming this podcast among things that might empower recruiters. I certainly hope so and if the show has ever done it, it’s definitely done it in these last 37 minutes of audio here with you Corrine. This has been fantastic and this is my favorite kind of episode, the one where we just abandon our notes and just sort of go for it, this is the best kind of chat I think and at this point, I would just say thank you so much for being here and sharing your experience and your wit and wisdom with me today. I really love hearing from you today.

[0:33:14.9] CI: Thank you Rob and I wouldn’t be recruiter if I didn’t plug AttackIQ. So everyone, visit AttackIQ on LinkedIn, you can connect with me on LinkedIn, of course Rob, you knew. You knew I was going to do that.

[0:33:28.8] RS: Are you hiring recruiters, are you hiring the talent team?

[0:33:31.1] CI: I love that you say that and I love to connect with all recruiters. So if you’re a recruiter and you want to talk talent to me, please.

[0:33:38.2] RS: Hell yeah. Oh, you even got the podcast name. You’re a pro.

[0:33:42.3] CI: Yeah. Oh, I try my best, I know.

[0:33:45.9] RS: I love it. Folks out there, if you like what Corrine has to say, if you like to cut off her jib then you know what to do, slide into those LinkedIn DMs, do your thing and thank you so much for being here Corrine. I’ve been Rob Stevenson, Corrine Ishio has been Corrine Ishio and you’ve all been amazing, wonderful talent acquisition darlings, have a spectacular week and happy hunting.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[0:34:08.0] RS: Talk Talent to Me is brought to you by Hired. Hired empowers connections by matching the world’s most innovative companies with ambitious tech and sales candidates. With Hired, candidates and the companies have visibility into salary offers, competing opportunities and job details. Hired’s unique offering includes customized assessments and salary bias alerts to help remove unconscious bias when hiring. By combining technology and human touch, our goal is to provide transparency in the recruiting process and empower each of our partners to employ their potential and keep their talent pipeline full.

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